4 ms·

Thank you to share the Ted T'so LKM post. Can you explain the culture reference "thin blue line"? I never heard it before.

by throwaway2037 2y ago

jsk2600 2y ago
The "thin blue line" is a term that typically refers to the concept of the police as the line between law-and-order and chaos in society.[1] The "blue" in "thin blue line" refers to the blue color of the uniforms of many police departments. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_blue_line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_blue_line
Suzuran 2y ago
It's a motto used by American law enforcement to justify extrajudicial punishment. Since they are the "thin blue line" that separates the public from anarchy, they are justified in acting independently to "protect" us when judges and juries do not "cooperate".
- patmorgan23 2y ago
  Not just extrajudicial punishment, but overlooking corrupt acts and crimes from fellow officers. That it's more important to maintain the 'brotherhood' than to arrest an officer caught driving home drunk.
- milesrout 2y ago
  That is a very strange take. The phrase isn't American and has no negative connotation. It has nothing to do with "extrajudicial punishment". It simply refers to the (obvious) fact that what separates societies from anarchy is the "thin blue line" of law enforcement. Rowan Atkinson had a sitcom set in a London police station in the 90s called "The Thin Blue Line". Are you under the impression he was dogwhistling about extrajudicial violence?
  - mijoharas 2y ago
    This is what really confused me about the article. I read the mailing list post and had no idea what was controversial about thin blue line. In fact, I thought most of that post was fairly reasonable. I'd never heard of the extrajudicial punishment aspect of the phrase (though I had heard the phrase itself) and it didn't show up when I googled, but I'm not American, so maybe there's some cultural differences.
    - HereIGoAgain 2y ago
      All the extrajudicial stuff is pure political and ideological wank by a subset of ideological extremists. Pay no attention to any of it. It's an attempt to redefine the term for narrative creation purposes.
    - cropcirclbureau 2y ago
      "Thin blue line" is a popular phrase of the so called "American culture war". During the heyday of the Black Lives Matter movement, it was used as a self-identification by those who did not agree with criticisms of the nations policing and justice systems. A closely related symbol is the Punisher[0] skull from Marvel comics. [0]: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/punisher-skull https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/punisher-skull All in all, this could just be another instance of the "culture war" inflaming every other minor disagreement with Ted playfully using the phrase and Marcan misinterpreting it. Or it could be Ted slipping up with their politics. From what I know about Marcan and what can be inferred from his post, they do seem like someone the alt-right would persecute.
      - mijoharas 2y ago
        Wow, hadn't heard of the punisher skull association either! It seems that it hasn't really traveled that much outside of America. I had a look, and it seems that Ted Ts'o is American, so I guess we should assume he understands the cultural significance of the phrase (even though I didn't).
- jmull 2y ago
  No, that's not really true. Directly, "the thin blue line" expresses the idea that the police are what separates society from chaos. It doesn't inherently suggest police are justified in acting outside the law themselves, though, of course, various people have suggested this (interestingly, from both a pro-police and anti-police perspective). It seems obvious to me that the post was using this phrase in the sense of being a thin shield from chaos.
citruscomputing 2y ago
As important context, it gained popularity in response to the Black Lives Matter movement.
- shortstuffsushi 2y ago
  I think you might be mistaking the "thin blue line" concept with the "blue / all lives matter" in this case, thin blue line is neither new nor newly popular with BLM.
  - CRConrad 2y ago
    Certainly more popular since then; probably swept along by "blue lives matter". Have you seen that black-and-blue version of the American flag, with, what is it, six or seven blue stripes (or lines)? How old is that?
mcherm 2y ago
In the US, this is a reference to the belief that members of law enforcement should be loyal folirst to other members of law enforcement and only secondarily to the law. Or at least that is how I have always understood it.
- School-Cotton 2y ago
  It seems obvious that that’s not what Ted intended it to mean, since it wouldn’t even make sense in this context (the debate doesn’t really seem to be about whether maintainers should be loyal to other maintainers). A more charitable interpretation would be “we’re the only line of defense protecting something good and valuable from the outside world, so people should give significant weight to our opinions and decisions”. Which, to be clear, I would still mostly disagree with WRT the police, but it at least doesn’t explicitly endorse corruption.
  - sophacles 2y ago
    There are many ways to state that without invoking corruption. I think Ted is telling the truth of who he is by choosing that phrase intentionally - we aren't talking about an idiot who just says stuff, he's a smart guy.
    - School-Cotton 2y ago
      Given that "invoking corruption" is neither the plain meaning of those words, nor does it even make sense in this context, I don't think it's reasonable to claim Ted did so.
      - sophacles 2y ago
        Ted Tso is an American, he was born in California, did his schooling in the US, and has worked here most (all?) of his career. As such he can be expected to know that "the thin blue line" is an idiom that carries with it a lot of connotation. It's perfectly reasonable to assume he was aware of the implications of his words and chose to use them anyway.
adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_blue_line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_blue_line TLDR is it's the idea that the police are the one thing stopping society from instantly dissolving into chaos so they shouldn't be questioned (even when they kneel on someone's neck until they die)
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Thank you to share the Ted T'so LKM post. Can you explain the culture reference "thin blue line"? I never heard it before.

jsk2600 2y ago

The "thin blue line" is a term that typically refers to the concept of the police as the line between law-and-order and chaos in society.[1] The "blue" in "thin blue line" refers to the blue color of the uniforms of many police departments. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_blue_line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_blue_line

Suzuran 2y ago

It's a motto used by American law enforcement to justify extrajudicial punishment. Since they are the "thin blue line" that separates the public from anarchy, they are justified in acting independently to "protect" us when judges and juries do not "cooperate".

patmorgan23 2y ago
Not just extrajudicial punishment, but overlooking corrupt acts and crimes from fellow officers. That it's more important to maintain the 'brotherhood' than to arrest an officer caught driving home drunk.
milesrout 2y ago
That is a very strange take. The phrase isn't American and has no negative connotation. It has nothing to do with "extrajudicial punishment". It simply refers to the (obvious) fact that what separates societies from anarchy is the "thin blue line" of law enforcement. Rowan Atkinson had a sitcom set in a London police station in the 90s called "The Thin Blue Line". Are you under the impression he was dogwhistling about extrajudicial violence?
- mijoharas 2y ago
  This is what really confused me about the article. I read the mailing list post and had no idea what was controversial about thin blue line. In fact, I thought most of that post was fairly reasonable. I'd never heard of the extrajudicial punishment aspect of the phrase (though I had heard the phrase itself) and it didn't show up when I googled, but I'm not American, so maybe there's some cultural differences.
  - HereIGoAgain 2y ago
    All the extrajudicial stuff is pure political and ideological wank by a subset of ideological extremists. Pay no attention to any of it. It's an attempt to redefine the term for narrative creation purposes.
  - cropcirclbureau 2y ago
    "Thin blue line" is a popular phrase of the so called "American culture war". During the heyday of the Black Lives Matter movement, it was used as a self-identification by those who did not agree with criticisms of the nations policing and justice systems. A closely related symbol is the Punisher[0] skull from Marvel comics. [0]: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/punisher-skull https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/punisher-skull All in all, this could just be another instance of the "culture war" inflaming every other minor disagreement with Ted playfully using the phrase and Marcan misinterpreting it. Or it could be Ted slipping up with their politics. From what I know about Marcan and what can be inferred from his post, they do seem like someone the alt-right would persecute.
    - mijoharas 2y ago
      Wow, hadn't heard of the punisher skull association either! It seems that it hasn't really traveled that much outside of America. I had a look, and it seems that Ted Ts'o is American, so I guess we should assume he understands the cultural significance of the phrase (even though I didn't).
jmull 2y ago
No, that's not really true. Directly, "the thin blue line" expresses the idea that the police are what separates society from chaos. It doesn't inherently suggest police are justified in acting outside the law themselves, though, of course, various people have suggested this (interestingly, from both a pro-police and anti-police perspective). It seems obvious to me that the post was using this phrase in the sense of being a thin shield from chaos.

citruscomputing 2y ago

As important context, it gained popularity in response to the Black Lives Matter movement.

shortstuffsushi 2y ago
I think you might be mistaking the "thin blue line" concept with the "blue / all lives matter" in this case, thin blue line is neither new nor newly popular with BLM.
- CRConrad 2y ago
  Certainly more popular since then; probably swept along by "blue lives matter". Have you seen that black-and-blue version of the American flag, with, what is it, six or seven blue stripes (or lines)? How old is that?

mcherm 2y ago

In the US, this is a reference to the belief that members of law enforcement should be loyal folirst to other members of law enforcement and only secondarily to the law. Or at least that is how I have always understood it.

School-Cotton 2y ago
It seems obvious that that’s not what Ted intended it to mean, since it wouldn’t even make sense in this context (the debate doesn’t really seem to be about whether maintainers should be loyal to other maintainers). A more charitable interpretation would be “we’re the only line of defense protecting something good and valuable from the outside world, so people should give significant weight to our opinions and decisions”. Which, to be clear, I would still mostly disagree with WRT the police, but it at least doesn’t explicitly endorse corruption.
- sophacles 2y ago
  There are many ways to state that without invoking corruption. I think Ted is telling the truth of who he is by choosing that phrase intentionally - we aren't talking about an idiot who just says stuff, he's a smart guy.
  - School-Cotton 2y ago
    Given that "invoking corruption" is neither the plain meaning of those words, nor does it even make sense in this context, I don't think it's reasonable to claim Ted did so.
    - sophacles 2y ago
      Ted Tso is an American, he was born in California, did his schooling in the US, and has worked here most (all?) of his career. As such he can be expected to know that "the thin blue line" is an idiom that carries with it a lot of connotation. It's perfectly reasonable to assume he was aware of the implications of his words and chose to use them anyway.

adgjlsfhk1 2y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_blue_line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_blue_line TLDR is it's the idea that the police are the one thing stopping society from instantly dissolving into chaos so they shouldn't be questioned (even when they kneel on someone's neck until they die)

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