3 ms·

Marcan brings up plenty of good points regarding contributing to kernel.org being stuck in the 1990s. However, he's got no social skills nor does he have what

Marcan brings up plenty of good points regarding contributing to kernel.org being stuck in the 1990s. However, he's got no social skills nor does he have what it takes to man up and understand he won't get his way. Additionally I doubt that he really is dealing with stalkers to the degree that he is implying; real people don't talk about their stalkers so much. When I was stalked and harassed I kept the details light and didn't provide much in the way of actual community details because I went to the FBI and local police to deal with it. And yes a few people not only got no contact orders, but lost jobs, families, and more over their exposure. Marcan is extremely talented, but talent doesn't equal "I get to get my way." All the time. This idea that conflicts need to be resolved quickly and in the favor of a golden boy is a millennial/zoomer issue.

secondcoming 2y ago
Yes, he’s clearly an extremely talented individual, but can’t seem to cope with not being the centre of other people’s worlds. Undiagnosed burnout possibly also played a role here.
- ThatGuyRaion 2y ago
  And getting emotionally involved. As Johnny Knoxville said: when you get emotional you become irrational and when you become irrational everything is real to you
stirlo 2y ago
I don't doubt him about the stalking problem (by online trolls, not necessarily IRL). He was a prominent voice in the trans supporter community and was regularly attacked by Kiwifarms.
- ThatGuyRaion 2y ago
  Well, if anyone broke the law or harmed him he needs to go to law enforcement or the FBI. Outside of that, just get used to be thrown abuse of all kinds. If you get tagged by a group like that the more you talk about them the more you give them ammo.
  - stirlo 2y ago
    > Well, if anyone broke the law or harmed him he needs to go to law enforcement or the FBI I think it's naive to suggest this would achieve anything when the platform is anonymous and he was based outside the US. > Outside of that, just get used to be thrown abuse of all kinds. This is far easier to say than to do. Particularly when you have a public profile as part of your work. > If you get tagged by a group like that the more you talk about them the more you give them ammo. Agreed but that still doesn't make it easy to ignore.
    - ThatGuyRaion 2y ago
      These sorts of things come part and parcel if you are on the internet for any length of time. It's just not possible to have one not the other.
      - dralley 2y ago
        Most people can use the internet without having a message board of people devote themselves to persistently harassing you for the "lol" value.
  - happyhardcore 2y ago
    We don't know if he's gone to the cops, but more often than not the police will not be able to help you in these sorts of situations. The way that Kiwifarms target people is incredibly hard to stop and I don't think they particularly need ammo; the way to not "give them ammo" would be to stop standing up for trans rights, and the fact that he hasn't is commendable.
    - ThatGuyRaion 2y ago
      I replied to another commenter about this, but these sorts of things are basically part and parcel of being a public figure. If you can't handle that, you need to sandbag. There's no other way around it. It is unlikely that Marcan will stop being the center of attention wherever he goes. If he wants to stand up for what he believes to be right, he shouldn't have a problem with the consequences of dealing with people who disagree with him, sometimes virulently. Trans issues are a very contentious issue right now and in my opinion the only way to win that type of situation is to not play. Doesn't mean I don't respect those people, but taking large public stances just put targets on your back
SadTrombone 2y ago
> This idea that conflicts need to be resolved quickly and in the favor of a golden boy is a millennial/zoomer issue. This is a strawman with no support behind it in the actual blog post. Marcan's issue wasn't that he wasn't "getting his way", his issue (from his viewpoint) was with Linus and co. claiming to support Rust on Linux while doing nothing to aid in adoption and in the case of some maintainers, actively sabotaging its implementation. If you're going to do something, then do something. Don't say you're going to do something, then do nothing while your underlings actually do the opposite.
- ThatGuyRaion 2y ago
  If you actually follow the exchange, he threw temper tantrums until he got suspended off Mastodon. I don't know, but that's not what I would expect from a professional developer.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
Blot2882 2y ago
> real people don't talk about their stalkers so much. When I was stalked and harassed I kept the details light and didn't provide much in the way of actual community details because I went to the FBI and local police to deal with it You actually provided more details here than he did, so I guess that's not true. >> Suffice it to say, I ended up traveling for most of the year, all the while having to handle various abusers and stalkers who harassed and attacked me and my family (and continue to do so). If anything, I am more doubtful you had stalkers since you are also in this thread saying this[1]. What an unsympathetic reply. You certainly don't come off like you're aware of the stress and fear that can bring if your answer to other people being stalked is "rethink your life choices." > Sounds to me like you just need to take a break from the internet friend. If you're that high profile that you're getting hit over and over, maybe you need to rethink your life choices. If it bothers you that much especially. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43038512 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43038512
- ThatGuyRaion 2y ago
  [flagged]

secondcoming 2y ago

Yes, he’s clearly an extremely talented individual, but can’t seem to cope with not being the centre of other people’s worlds. Undiagnosed burnout possibly also played a role here.

ThatGuyRaion 2y ago
And getting emotionally involved. As Johnny Knoxville said: when you get emotional you become irrational and when you become irrational everything is real to you

stirlo 2y ago

I don't doubt him about the stalking problem (by online trolls, not necessarily IRL). He was a prominent voice in the trans supporter community and was regularly attacked by Kiwifarms.

ThatGuyRaion 2y ago
Well, if anyone broke the law or harmed him he needs to go to law enforcement or the FBI. Outside of that, just get used to be thrown abuse of all kinds. If you get tagged by a group like that the more you talk about them the more you give them ammo.
- stirlo 2y ago
  > Well, if anyone broke the law or harmed him he needs to go to law enforcement or the FBI I think it's naive to suggest this would achieve anything when the platform is anonymous and he was based outside the US. > Outside of that, just get used to be thrown abuse of all kinds. This is far easier to say than to do. Particularly when you have a public profile as part of your work. > If you get tagged by a group like that the more you talk about them the more you give them ammo. Agreed but that still doesn't make it easy to ignore.
  - ThatGuyRaion 2y ago
    These sorts of things come part and parcel if you are on the internet for any length of time. It's just not possible to have one not the other.
    - dralley 2y ago
      Most people can use the internet without having a message board of people devote themselves to persistently harassing you for the "lol" value.
- happyhardcore 2y ago
  We don't know if he's gone to the cops, but more often than not the police will not be able to help you in these sorts of situations. The way that Kiwifarms target people is incredibly hard to stop and I don't think they particularly need ammo; the way to not "give them ammo" would be to stop standing up for trans rights, and the fact that he hasn't is commendable.
  - ThatGuyRaion 2y ago
    I replied to another commenter about this, but these sorts of things are basically part and parcel of being a public figure. If you can't handle that, you need to sandbag. There's no other way around it. It is unlikely that Marcan will stop being the center of attention wherever he goes. If he wants to stand up for what he believes to be right, he shouldn't have a problem with the consequences of dealing with people who disagree with him, sometimes virulently. Trans issues are a very contentious issue right now and in my opinion the only way to win that type of situation is to not play. Doesn't mean I don't respect those people, but taking large public stances just put targets on your back

SadTrombone 2y ago

> This idea that conflicts need to be resolved quickly and in the favor of a golden boy is a millennial/zoomer issue. This is a strawman with no support behind it in the actual blog post. Marcan's issue wasn't that he wasn't "getting his way", his issue (from his viewpoint) was with Linus and co. claiming to support Rust on Linux while doing nothing to aid in adoption and in the case of some maintainers, actively sabotaging its implementation. If you're going to do something, then do something. Don't say you're going to do something, then do nothing while your underlings actually do the opposite.

ThatGuyRaion 2y ago
If you actually follow the exchange, he threw temper tantrums until he got suspended off Mastodon. I don't know, but that's not what I would expect from a professional developer.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

Blot2882 2y ago

> real people don't talk about their stalkers so much. When I was stalked and harassed I kept the details light and didn't provide much in the way of actual community details because I went to the FBI and local police to deal with it You actually provided more details here than he did, so I guess that's not true. >> Suffice it to say, I ended up traveling for most of the year, all the while having to handle various abusers and stalkers who harassed and attacked me and my family (and continue to do so). If anything, I am more doubtful you had stalkers since you are also in this thread saying this[1]. What an unsympathetic reply. You certainly don't come off like you're aware of the stress and fear that can bring if your answer to other people being stalked is "rethink your life choices." > Sounds to me like you just need to take a break from the internet friend. If you're that high profile that you're getting hit over and over, maybe you need to rethink your life choices. If it bothers you that much especially. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43038512 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43038512

ThatGuyRaion 2y ago
[flagged]