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100% agree. For the last few years, I've been saying the following regularly (to friends, family and coworkers): communication is the hardest thing humans will

by e40 2y ago

100% agree. For the last few years, I've been saying the following regularly (to friends, family and coworkers): communication is the hardest thing humans will ever do. Period. Going to the moon, launching rockets, building that amazing app... the hardest thing of all is communicating with other people to get it done. As a founder (for 40+ years and counting) I manage a lot of different type of people and communication failures are the largest common thread. Humans have a very, very tough time assuming the point of view of another. That is the root of terrible communication, but assumptions are right up there as a big second. On the Marcan thing... I just want to say, control what you can and forget the rest (yes, this is direct from stoicism). Users boldly asking for features and not being grateful? Just ignore them. Getting your ego wrapped up in these requests (because that's what it is, even if he doesn't want to admit it), is folly. I contributed to Marcan for more than a year. I was sad to see the way it ended. I wish him well.

bayindirh 2y ago
> Humans have a very, very tough time assuming the point of view of another. That is the root of terrible communication, but assumptions are right up there as a big second. That's very true. I recommend some people to read "The Four Agreements", because that thin book has real potential to improve people's lives through active and passive communication.
- roenxi 2y ago
  Also worth being aware of Robert Kagen's adult development model [0] or something similar; that gives people a framework to go from "humans seem" to some actual percentages and capabilities. Spoiler, but approximately 66% of the adult population make do without being able to maintain their own perspective independently of what their social circle tells them it is. I imagine that would make it extremely challenging to determine what someone else's perspective is. Especially if that perspective is being formed based on empiricism rather than social signalling. And if we're making book recommendations, Non-Violent Communication is a gem of an idea. [0] https://medium.com/@NataliMorad/how-to-be-an-adult-kegans-theory-of-adult-development-d63f4311b553 https://medium.com/@NataliMorad/how-to-be-an-adult-kegans-th...
  - jfim 2y ago
    That's pretty fascinating, thanks for sharing it! It's a pretty compelling explanation as to why some people seem to be completely unable to logically explain their reasoning for certain beliefs and just fall back to "well it should be so because everybody says so."
    - roenxi 2y ago
      Ta. I learned about it from my favourite HN comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40856578 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40856578) and have spent the last 6 months wondering why people don't bring it up more. It may just be a model but it has much explanatory power for why there seem to be so many "stupid" people around. I don't really have the word to describe them; people who are technically reasonable but not convinced by arguments or evidence.
oldpersonintx 2y ago
> (yes, this is direct from stoicism) stoics don't write multi-paragraph goodbye letters
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- otikik 2y ago
  No, the other ones
- MyOutfitIsVague 2y ago
  Stoicism is a school of philosophy. There are many many words over thousands of years discussing the practices and virtues.
  - kennysoona 2y ago
    You've stated a fact that has no bearing on the parents claim. Why?
    - coldtea 2y ago
      If they've written "many many words over thousands of years" for the merits of their philosophy, they are also perfectly capable to write multi-paragraph goodbye letters. That's the bearing it has on the parents claim. And many did. Why you felt the need to add your comment, is a more apt question.
      - kennysoona 2y ago
        > If they've written "many many words over thousands of years" for the merits of their philosophy, they are also perfectly capable to write multi-paragraph goodbye letters. That's the bearing it has on the parents claim. And many did. Eh, not really - "multi-paragraph goodbye letters" here refers to the overly dramatic fad that internet denizens sometimes engage in when they leave communities, and they tend to have a lot of whining. Those types of goodbye letters are not the types of goodbye letters stoics would write. > Why you felt the need to add your comment, is a more apt question. If you were able to pick up so swiftly what the person I replied to was implying, you too should be able to have picked up that I replied because I disagreed with that implication.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

by e40 2y ago

bayindirh 2y ago

> Humans have a very, very tough time assuming the point of view of another. That is the root of terrible communication, but assumptions are right up there as a big second. That's very true. I recommend some people to read "The Four Agreements", because that thin book has real potential to improve people's lives through active and passive communication.

roenxi 2y ago
Also worth being aware of Robert Kagen's adult development model [0] or something similar; that gives people a framework to go from "humans seem" to some actual percentages and capabilities. Spoiler, but approximately 66% of the adult population make do without being able to maintain their own perspective independently of what their social circle tells them it is. I imagine that would make it extremely challenging to determine what someone else's perspective is. Especially if that perspective is being formed based on empiricism rather than social signalling. And if we're making book recommendations, Non-Violent Communication is a gem of an idea. [0] https://medium.com/@NataliMorad/how-to-be-an-adult-kegans-theory-of-adult-development-d63f4311b553 https://medium.com/@NataliMorad/how-to-be-an-adult-kegans-th...
- jfim 2y ago
  That's pretty fascinating, thanks for sharing it! It's a pretty compelling explanation as to why some people seem to be completely unable to logically explain their reasoning for certain beliefs and just fall back to "well it should be so because everybody says so."
  - roenxi 2y ago
    Ta. I learned about it from my favourite HN comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40856578 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40856578) and have spent the last 6 months wondering why people don't bring it up more. It may just be a model but it has much explanatory power for why there seem to be so many "stupid" people around. I don't really have the word to describe them; people who are technically reasonable but not convinced by arguments or evidence.

oldpersonintx 2y ago

> (yes, this is direct from stoicism) stoics don't write multi-paragraph goodbye letters

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
otikik 2y ago
No, the other ones
MyOutfitIsVague 2y ago
Stoicism is a school of philosophy. There are many many words over thousands of years discussing the practices and virtues.
- kennysoona 2y ago
  You've stated a fact that has no bearing on the parents claim. Why?
  - coldtea 2y ago
    If they've written "many many words over thousands of years" for the merits of their philosophy, they are also perfectly capable to write multi-paragraph goodbye letters. That's the bearing it has on the parents claim. And many did. Why you felt the need to add your comment, is a more apt question.
    - kennysoona 2y ago
      > If they've written "many many words over thousands of years" for the merits of their philosophy, they are also perfectly capable to write multi-paragraph goodbye letters. That's the bearing it has on the parents claim. And many did. Eh, not really - "multi-paragraph goodbye letters" here refers to the overly dramatic fad that internet denizens sometimes engage in when they leave communities, and they tend to have a lot of whining. Those types of goodbye letters are not the types of goodbye letters stoics would write. > Why you felt the need to add your comment, is a more apt question. If you were able to pick up so swiftly what the person I replied to was implying, you too should be able to have picked up that I replied because I disagreed with that implication.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]