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Why is it ok that the American government have a backdoor & have access to all non-American's personal data, but when the UK/EU wants something similar, suddenl

by gman83 2y ago

Why is it ok that the American government have a backdoor & have access to all non-American's personal data, but when the UK/EU wants something similar, suddenly it's a massive outrage. Is it just "we're stronger than you", so it's ok when we do it?

switch007 2y ago
The US believes whatever the US does is morally right and justified Yes it's might is right
madeofpalk 2y ago
Was Snowden not a massive outrage?
gruez 2y ago
Define "backdoor". US authorities being able to demand data service providers have access to (eg. your gmail account) is nowhere comparable to an encryption backdoor, which is what's proposed here.
- croes 2y ago
  Because the US don’t ask for a backdoor in encryption, they build it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_EC_DRBG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_EC_DRBG
  - gruez 2y ago
    Your own article admits it's basically used nowhere. That's important, because OP specifically claims that the US government has"access to all non-American's personal data". Moreover it was widely condemned, contrary to OP's claim of "but when the UK/EU wants something similar, suddenly it's a massive outrage. Is it just "we're stronger than you", so it's ok when we do it?".
    - croes 2y ago
      At least UK demands it openly. The US spied on EU’s industry with ECHOLON, 9/11 prevented further investigations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON And the US and Germany sold backdoored crypto hardware to allies per Crypto AG in Switzerland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG My point is: the UK demands are bad but I‘m sure the US agencies have similar demands and also backdoors, I‘m looking at you Cisco, just not openly. The UK is playing with open cards, the US don‘t. I trust neither but the US are more devious.
      - gruez 2y ago
        >The US spied on EU’s industry with ECHOLON, 9/11 prevented further investigations. >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON >And the US and Germany sold backdoored crypto hardware to allies per Crypto AG in Switzerland. >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG From a quick skim it looks like in both cases surveillance was bilateral? In other words, European partner countries also got access. Again, I'm not claiming US doesn't do any surveillance, that would be absurd. I'm specifically arguing against OP's claim that "American government have [...] access to all non-American's personal data", and that their access was somehow exclusive. All the source you presented so far only points towards the US having access to some data (in other words, they have an intelligence agency), and that they cooperate with foreign governments in some cases to get data. >My point is: the UK demands are bad but I‘m sure the US agencies have similar demands and also backdoors, I‘m looking at you Cisco, just not openly. Do you have evidence for US having backdoors in cisco hardware other than being "sure"?
        croes 2y ago
        https://www.theregister.com/2019/05/02/cisco_vulnerabilities/ https://www.theregister.com/2019/05/02/cisco_vulnerabilities... https://www.tomshardware.com/news/cisco-backdoor-hardcoded-accounts-software,37480.html https://www.tomshardware.com/news/cisco-backdoor-hardcoded-a... Either Cisco is the most incompetent security company and should be excluded from any state use or at least some of the „errors“ are one purpose.

by gman83 2y ago

switch007 2y ago

The US believes whatever the US does is morally right and justified Yes it's might is right

madeofpalk 2y ago

Was Snowden not a massive outrage?

gruez 2y ago

Define "backdoor". US authorities being able to demand data service providers have access to (eg. your gmail account) is nowhere comparable to an encryption backdoor, which is what's proposed here.

croes 2y ago
Because the US don’t ask for a backdoor in encryption, they build it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_EC_DRBG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_EC_DRBG
- gruez 2y ago
  Your own article admits it's basically used nowhere. That's important, because OP specifically claims that the US government has"access to all non-American's personal data". Moreover it was widely condemned, contrary to OP's claim of "but when the UK/EU wants something similar, suddenly it's a massive outrage. Is it just "we're stronger than you", so it's ok when we do it?".
  - croes 2y ago
    At least UK demands it openly. The US spied on EU’s industry with ECHOLON, 9/11 prevented further investigations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON And the US and Germany sold backdoored crypto hardware to allies per Crypto AG in Switzerland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG My point is: the UK demands are bad but I‘m sure the US agencies have similar demands and also backdoors, I‘m looking at you Cisco, just not openly. The UK is playing with open cards, the US don‘t. I trust neither but the US are more devious.
    - gruez 2y ago
      >The US spied on EU’s industry with ECHOLON, 9/11 prevented further investigations. >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON >And the US and Germany sold backdoored crypto hardware to allies per Crypto AG in Switzerland. >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG From a quick skim it looks like in both cases surveillance was bilateral? In other words, European partner countries also got access. Again, I'm not claiming US doesn't do any surveillance, that would be absurd. I'm specifically arguing against OP's claim that "American government have [...] access to all non-American's personal data", and that their access was somehow exclusive. All the source you presented so far only points towards the US having access to some data (in other words, they have an intelligence agency), and that they cooperate with foreign governments in some cases to get data. >My point is: the UK demands are bad but I‘m sure the US agencies have similar demands and also backdoors, I‘m looking at you Cisco, just not openly. Do you have evidence for US having backdoors in cisco hardware other than being "sure"?
      - croes 2y ago
        https://www.theregister.com/2019/05/02/cisco_vulnerabilities/ https://www.theregister.com/2019/05/02/cisco_vulnerabilities... https://www.tomshardware.com/news/cisco-backdoor-hardcoded-accounts-software,37480.html https://www.tomshardware.com/news/cisco-backdoor-hardcoded-a... Either Cisco is the most incompetent security company and should be excluded from any state use or at least some of the „errors“ are one purpose.