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It's never a good thing when the people who take on jobs in the public sector have to fear their own government. Especially when that government wilfully instal

It's never a good thing when the people who take on jobs in the public sector have to fear their own government. Especially when that government wilfully installs under-qualified and downright untrustworthy leadership.

paganel 2y ago
[flagged]
- regularjack 2y ago
  Why would that be a good thing? Sounds like a bad thing to me
  - paganel 2y ago
    It may sound like a bad thing for the American citizens that cherish imperialism and for the compradors here in Eastern Europe who directly profit from said American imperialism, but for the rest of us, normal people (both in the US and in Eastern Europe and other such parts of the American Empire) seeing USAID and NED gone is a gift from Heaven.
    - regularjack 2y ago
      You still didn't explain why you think that.
lazide 2y ago
I’ve known a lot of gov’t workers over my not-super-short life. You will never find a group of people more distrusting of the gov’t, if not outright calling for it’s destruction. Honestly, similar to software engineers and software.
- spiderfarmer 2y ago
  That might be a cultural issue then. From what I see in the USA people don’t even trust their own family members.
  - lazide 2y ago
    it could also just be experience.
    - spiderfarmer 2y ago
      The USA seems like a hellscape.
      - lazide 2y ago
        most places are in their own ways, and wonderful and beautiful in others. America seems to have flipped from exporting the ‘American Dream’ to the ‘American Nightmare’, so it’s a lot more in people’s face right now, but frankly every country has significant issues right now. one of those ‘hard to see the mote in one’s own eye’ type of situations usually. except in some third world countries, it’s often pretty obvious then hah.
username332211 2y ago
Is it? Qin did conquer the 7 states. After the French revolution, France resisted the combined might of the rest of Europe by being unafraid to murder it's generals when they underperformed. The Soviet union is said to have reached it's apogee under Stalin. If anything, history shows that ruling government officials by means of fear is very good sign for the nation, but tends to be harmful to the rulers.
- woooooo 2y ago
  Counterpoint there would be Mao. Lots of fear and starvation, less impressive results until Deng started fixing things.
- ben_w 2y ago
  You can't reach that conclusion by limiting to only examples where fear worked, as I can also point to Pol Pot, Mugabe, and the Kim dynasty of North Korea ruling by fear, and it being bad for those countries.
  - username332211 2y ago
    This discussion isn't about generalized terror, it's about a policy of fear directed at people who work for the government. None of the people you listed directed their campaign of murders towards civil servants. Pol Pot confined his cruelty towards the intelligent, Mugabe, North Korea mostly terrorizes the peasantry, Mugabe's victims were a revolving door of ethnic enemies. It's quite a different thing to shoot an admiral to encourage the rest.

paganel 2y ago

[flagged]

regularjack 2y ago
Why would that be a good thing? Sounds like a bad thing to me
- paganel 2y ago
  It may sound like a bad thing for the American citizens that cherish imperialism and for the compradors here in Eastern Europe who directly profit from said American imperialism, but for the rest of us, normal people (both in the US and in Eastern Europe and other such parts of the American Empire) seeing USAID and NED gone is a gift from Heaven.
  - regularjack 2y ago
    You still didn't explain why you think that.

lazide 2y ago

I’ve known a lot of gov’t workers over my not-super-short life. You will never find a group of people more distrusting of the gov’t, if not outright calling for it’s destruction. Honestly, similar to software engineers and software.

spiderfarmer 2y ago
That might be a cultural issue then. From what I see in the USA people don’t even trust their own family members.
- lazide 2y ago
  it could also just be experience.
  - spiderfarmer 2y ago
    The USA seems like a hellscape.
    - lazide 2y ago
      most places are in their own ways, and wonderful and beautiful in others. America seems to have flipped from exporting the ‘American Dream’ to the ‘American Nightmare’, so it’s a lot more in people’s face right now, but frankly every country has significant issues right now. one of those ‘hard to see the mote in one’s own eye’ type of situations usually. except in some third world countries, it’s often pretty obvious then hah.

username332211 2y ago

Is it? Qin did conquer the 7 states. After the French revolution, France resisted the combined might of the rest of Europe by being unafraid to murder it's generals when they underperformed. The Soviet union is said to have reached it's apogee under Stalin. If anything, history shows that ruling government officials by means of fear is very good sign for the nation, but tends to be harmful to the rulers.

woooooo 2y ago
Counterpoint there would be Mao. Lots of fear and starvation, less impressive results until Deng started fixing things.
ben_w 2y ago
You can't reach that conclusion by limiting to only examples where fear worked, as I can also point to Pol Pot, Mugabe, and the Kim dynasty of North Korea ruling by fear, and it being bad for those countries.
- username332211 2y ago
  This discussion isn't about generalized terror, it's about a policy of fear directed at people who work for the government. None of the people you listed directed their campaign of murders towards civil servants. Pol Pot confined his cruelty towards the intelligent, Mugabe, North Korea mostly terrorizes the peasantry, Mugabe's victims were a revolving door of ethnic enemies. It's quite a different thing to shoot an admiral to encourage the rest.