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We'll look back on it as we do all of the other times people got away with things they shouldn't have gotten away with while holding the power of the state. I'

We'll look back on it as we do all of the other times people got away with things they shouldn't have gotten away with while holding the power of the state. I'll also add that there are absolutely people in Europe who aspire to see this kind of thing happen there, and that in some cases, it already has. See: Orban, Brexit, Le Pen, AfD, etc... and that of course doesn't touch on what happens in less-Western European countries.

martin_a 2y ago
> there are absolutely people in Europe who aspire to see this kind of thing happen there Yeah, that's exactly what I fear. Seeing this is a working example or a role model on how to do it here, too. And yes, you pointed out the most obvious of the bad guys.
- diggan 2y ago
  In reality, it's the opposite. What we're seeing day-by-day in the US today matches almost exactly how the rise of Fascism was done in Europe, and how they grabbed as much power as they could, both before the second-world war, and in more modern times.
mytailorisrich 2y ago
[flagged]
- martin_a 2y ago
  > What seems unique at this stage, [...] is the speed and brutality I think this is especially concerning. From all the reports this whole "process" looks like "shoot first, ask questions later" and I think that's not how democracies should work in regards to anything. While the goals might be very favorable and welcome, the process and way to get there has to live up to high standards, too. edit: And I think you can have speed and a momentum in doing things without going in like in a Counterstrike match.
- lenerdenator 2y ago
  > As an European I find it odd that you are suggesting that the stated goals of DOGE (government efficiency, cutting public expenses, wasre, etc) are, as I interpret your choice of people/parties, "far right". They are not. Rule #1 of dealing with these sorts: The stated goals do not matter. They're sugar coating for the middle. And even if they did matter, the fact is, we have a friend of the head of government rooting around in incredibly sensitive computer systems with a cadre of interns without any sort of statutory or constitutional authority to do so. What Musk is doing is a crime. I'd argue it's actually very European. There's a guy with authority to do what he wants because reasons. Sounds like the justification used for monarchy. The only real difference is that there's a role for such a person already carved out in constitutional monarchies, as opposed to creation of it.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  > As an European I find it odd that you are suggesting that the stated goals of DOGE (government efficiency, cutting public expenses, wasre, etc) are, as I interpret your choice of people/parties, "far right". Just because Hannibal Lecter's stated goal is a "tasty meal" doesn't mean it's intended to be accomplished in a good fashion.

martin_a 2y ago

> there are absolutely people in Europe who aspire to see this kind of thing happen there Yeah, that's exactly what I fear. Seeing this is a working example or a role model on how to do it here, too. And yes, you pointed out the most obvious of the bad guys.

diggan 2y ago
In reality, it's the opposite. What we're seeing day-by-day in the US today matches almost exactly how the rise of Fascism was done in Europe, and how they grabbed as much power as they could, both before the second-world war, and in more modern times.

mytailorisrich 2y ago

[flagged]

martin_a 2y ago
> What seems unique at this stage, [...] is the speed and brutality I think this is especially concerning. From all the reports this whole "process" looks like "shoot first, ask questions later" and I think that's not how democracies should work in regards to anything. While the goals might be very favorable and welcome, the process and way to get there has to live up to high standards, too. edit: And I think you can have speed and a momentum in doing things without going in like in a Counterstrike match.
lenerdenator 2y ago
> As an European I find it odd that you are suggesting that the stated goals of DOGE (government efficiency, cutting public expenses, wasre, etc) are, as I interpret your choice of people/parties, "far right". They are not. Rule #1 of dealing with these sorts: The stated goals do not matter. They're sugar coating for the middle. And even if they did matter, the fact is, we have a friend of the head of government rooting around in incredibly sensitive computer systems with a cadre of interns without any sort of statutory or constitutional authority to do so. What Musk is doing is a crime. I'd argue it's actually very European. There's a guy with authority to do what he wants because reasons. Sounds like the justification used for monarchy. The only real difference is that there's a role for such a person already carved out in constitutional monarchies, as opposed to creation of it.
ceejayoz 2y ago
> As an European I find it odd that you are suggesting that the stated goals of DOGE (government efficiency, cutting public expenses, wasre, etc) are, as I interpret your choice of people/parties, "far right". Just because Hannibal Lecter's stated goal is a "tasty meal" doesn't mean it's intended to be accomplished in a good fashion.