5 ms·

The behavior will continue until a consequence is assigned. EDIT: I should add, this consequence should be legislative or legal in nature.

bamboozled 2y ago
Why would there be consequences? The majority of voting Americans wanted this to happen. Let's not pretend this wasn't the likely conclusion and voters were solely focused on the price of eggs. By modifying core systems, the attackers have not only compromised current operations, but have also left behind vulnerabilities that could be exploited in future attacks—giving adversaries such as Russia and China an unprecedented opportunity. These countries have long targeted these systems. And they don’t just want to gather intelligence—they also want to understand how to disrupt these systems in a crisis. It's really hard to imagine this whole coup isn't some type of Russian / Chinese attack on the western world at this stage. It's too unbelievably good for them to just be a coincidence.
- cglace 2y ago
  People were worried about the economy and inflation. To say that most voters wanted to dismantle the government is a bit of a stretch. I remember all the posters here expressing their belief that Doge would do nothing and was just an advisory role.
  - rs186 2y ago
    I agree, but I lament how voters quickly forget the chaos from the first Trump administration, and how much they didn't care about the DOGE agenda. They think they voted for a lower inflation (which is a very questionable premise by itself), but they didn't realize they were voting for the whole package. I definitely wasn't surprised, and American people deserve this. Hopefully the voters come to their mind in the next election, and hope it's not too late.
    - Swoerd 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - slt2021 2y ago
        even more stupid are Democrat party leadership who could have won past elections in a slam dunk, have they had thought about transition strategy in advance
        johnnyanmac 2y ago
        They did... It's clear their strategies are at best outdated, or at worst more focused on a neoliberal policy over a proper socialist strategy (hence, them blocking Sanders out twice). I know it's small fries given current issues, but this is part of why I think (or thoght) the biggest focus for the people should be getting more states to adopt ranked choice voting. That's the only way out of this game theory disaster.
        esseph 2y ago
        The current push is to outlaw that across the country. Just happened in Missouri I believe.
        johnnyanmac 2y ago
        how disappointinig. Yet another front to battle on.A bit insane how a position like "I want my vote to matter more!" can become a partisan stance with the right propaganda.
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      >They think they voted for a lower inflation (which is a very questionable premise by itself) https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/u-s-inflation-increases-to-3-percent-groceries-and-gasoline-prices-heading-higher https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/u-s-inflation-increases... And yet those people are so quiet at best. At worst they think "it has to get worse before it gets better". But yes, I do wish some signifigant portion of the voter base would simply inquire one step further on their represenatives. Trump had no action plans for this, and when sworn in he passed 100 EO's and left Inflation as "tbd". Still is, as far as I know.
  - bamboozled 2y ago
    Which is weird because by the numbers, the economy was doing wonderfully. Maybe you meant to say. People were told an economy prophecy and believed it ? Even during campaigning the republicans literally warned people their vision would incur economy hardships but that it would be worth it in the long run. I get the frustration that the price of daily goods was too high but the incumbents did present an actual feasible plan to deal with it. So I’m not really sure it was about “the economy”. Anyway everything outlined in this article seemed pretty likely to happen, they literally told people their plans ?
    - lenerdenator 2y ago
      > I get the frustration that the price of daily goods was too high but the incumbents did present an actual feasible plan to deal with it. So I’m not really sure it was about “the economy”. As usual, it's about the allocation of surplus value. The US has enjoyed a great economy over the past four years, and really, even longer. I'm in my 30s and most of my life has been marked by economic expansion. The problem comes from the fact that we take all of the money generated by that economic expansion and pipe it to shareholders instead of labor. The average person cannot live solely off the returns from their equity investments; they have to work in order to pay bills. That work essentially started buying less over the last half-decade. Now, is that partially because of the Biden administration? Yes. Any time you print money, it devalues the money that already exists. But it's also, and more fundamentally, the fault of the first Trump administration. The PPP, funded with printed money, was a massive subsidy to upper-middle class Americans, and 35-ish years of GOP revenue policy made sure it has to be printed. The US had no reserves of cash to pay for an emergency like COVID. Why? Because we haven't had a real federal tax discussion since George HW Bush said "read my lips: no new taxes". That, of course, doesn't matter: the buck stops at the Oval Office, and Biden didn't have the likely personality disorder necessary to shove the buck back in people's faces on the order that Trump does. Neither did Harris. So back to the "glory" years of 2016-2019 we go, reckless monetary policy and all.
  - intended 2y ago
    1) There is a group of voters, typically younger men, who would very much want to see things burn to the ground. A form of nihilism of outlook. 2) People never want the bad things, which is why voters tend to ignore information that tells them that things will be bad. People didnt realize that Biden had stepped down after the election. Voters were not aware that Obamacare and the ACA are the same thing. Information that this was going to happen, was shared, repeated and told over and over again. This is basically leopards-eating-face territory. Sugar coating it, leaving people berefet of their own authorship of their life, of their choices? I have no idea how that results in anything other than a way to feel nice about each other.
    - slt2021 2y ago
      >This is basically leopards-eating-face territory. young people are too poor and dont have much to lose. They wanted a break from the status quo, some new faces, other than DC establishment in power, and Trump is delivering on that demand
      - cglace 2y ago
        I'd think they would be interested in healthcare and the economy and not necessarily that we place conspiracy theorists in high positions. Unless the youth of today are that dumb.
        slt2021 2y ago
        Every conspiracy is being confirmed, so I wouldnt be too harsh calling these conspiracies
        johnnyanmac 2y ago
        which conspiracies?
        slt2021 2y ago
        RFK Jr's book "The Real Anthony Fauci"[1], where he exposes the long history behind the creating custom designer viruses under the NIH umbrella, which led to COVID pandemic, and how every mainstream journo called him "conspiracy theorist". Turns out it was the lab leak after all, according to the CIA[2] This is the most important one, once we get to the bottom of who created virus that killed millions and caused tens of trillions in economic damage, it will cause other more significant events. Another one, how he explained the nature behind the Ukraine war, and how military industrial complex is stealing US government money and profiting off of artificially prolonging the Ukraine-Russia war[3]. Everyone called him conspiracy theorist, when he said BlackRock, Monsanto, DuPont have bought Ukrainian land, turns out it was true. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Real_Anthony_Fauci 2. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd9qjjj4zy5o 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWowuHMvpzU
- IAmGraydon 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - Swoerd 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - jodrellblank 2y ago
    It wasn't announced as 'DOGE' but it was not a surprise; from August: "Former President Donald Trump signaled his willingness to offer Elon Musk a role in his administration in a proposed “government efficiency commission” if he wins the presidential election in November"[1]. In the Republican Party Platform 2024: "2. Rein in Wasteful Federal Spending. Republicans will immediately stabilize the Economy by slashing wasteful Government spending"[2] [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2024/08/13/trump-backs-idea-of-musk-joining-government-efficiency-commission-if-he-wins-second-term/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2024/08/13/trump-b... [2] https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/2024-republican-party-platform https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/2024-republican-pa...
    - __egb__ 2y ago
      There have been plenty of government commissions in the past. None of them functioned anything like DOGE, not even the ones instituted by the current President during his first term. I think this is a surprise to many…even Trump’s more ardent supporters. After all, they thought they were voting for President Trump, not Assistant (to the) President Trump.
      - johnnyanmac 2y ago
        Hindsight is 20/20, but what's scarier to me is the approval ratings[0] There's still apparently 40% of the population that approves of this behavior. staggering 72% of republicans still approve of this behavior. This did spike his approval ratings, but such an utter breach in the government really should be much closer to democrat's 10% here instead of the normally middling behavior of "bad" president's 40%. There's stll way too many people approving of this. For reference, Nixon's ratings right before resigning was 24%. [0]: https://www.filesforprogress.org/datasets/2025/2/dfp_trump_admin_perceptions.pdf https://www.filesforprogress.org/datasets/2025/2/dfp_trump_a... (Page 2)
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  >Let's not pretend this wasn't the likely conclusion and voters were solely focused on the price of eggs. Maybe I'm still naive, but I believe maybe 30-40% (At least) of trump voters simply 1) really wanted immprovements in their lives or 2)thought any pf the negatives of trump would not happen to them. Trump got the simple votes and discorded such people promptly. We'll see how long they, one by one, realize such a fact. Likewise, I doubt that many supporters voted with the idea that Trump would be put back in as a Sino-Ruso puppet. They would dimiss any such talk as conspiracy, no matter how many calls he makes/takes from Putin and how many docs he mishandles.
oneplane 2y ago
I wonder how that would work out. It's a bit of an inverse-Ouroboros where the people that are the government keep saying they are 'doing something about the government' without realising that that's them. Maybe they see themselves as something that is not the government, but the whole race they took part in was the race to get elected for government work. At some point, enough destruction will have happened where the tools for useful government functionality no longer exist in usable capacity.
- dandanua 2y ago
  I tell you more. They don't just consider themselves as a government, they don't consider themselves as humans either. They want to be a different kind of species, they want to be above humans, just like humans are above the cattle. And in some sense they are, if so many people were stupid enough to get them elected.
kombine 2y ago
Trump's admin already said that they will defy court rulings.
- perrygeo 2y ago
  Worse, JD Vance has said repeatedly that they WANT courts to rule against them, so that they can directly challenge the court's power. I believe his exact words were "Let the court enforce it." Which of course is a sick joke - courts have no enforcement power without the executive branch. They fully intend to cause a constitutional crisis on purpose. It's all in plain sight, in their own words. America will get what it voted for.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  Good. Nothing more wrathful than a Judge out for blood. let all the civil and criminal contempt fly out the aisles
dariusj18 2y ago
There's a reason Musk brought in younglings to do the illegal stuff. To ignorant to know that in a few years they will be in jail.
- lenerdenator 2y ago
  Will they be? The last ten years have been an exercise in "they will be in jail" without any one of import actually going to jail. Hell, not many have even been arrested.
  - SpaceNoodled 2y ago
    A bunch of insurrectionists were in jail, but then something happened and the inmates are now running the asylum.
    - lenerdenator 2y ago
      The people that mattered didn't see jail. That's the problem.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    >without any one of import actually going to jail. I'd argue these kids won't "be of import" in the long scheme of things. Maybe in future software ethics/security classes at best. I sadly don't think Musk will ever be in a jailcell, but I'll settle for him never stepping foot in a federal facility again.
- barkingcat 2y ago
  nah, in a few years, they will be rich beyond your imagination, and they will be set up to be next in succession to be king of the us.
  - yencabulator 2y ago
    I think you mean vassals of Elon's gene carriers.
Swoerd 2y ago
"I should add, this consequence should be legislative or legal in nature." Should it be?
- rat87 2y ago
  Yes Its illegal for a reason. The only good counterargument I've seen is that it might encourage worse actions to try to evade punishment.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  Ideally, yes. Leaves little wiggle room, settles things with minimal bloodshed, and stamps a nigh objecive ruling. But if blood is spilt, it'll slow things down in ways congress seems unable to do. Not stop, but slow down.

bamboozled 2y ago

Why would there be consequences? The majority of voting Americans wanted this to happen. Let's not pretend this wasn't the likely conclusion and voters were solely focused on the price of eggs. By modifying core systems, the attackers have not only compromised current operations, but have also left behind vulnerabilities that could be exploited in future attacks—giving adversaries such as Russia and China an unprecedented opportunity. These countries have long targeted these systems. And they don’t just want to gather intelligence—they also want to understand how to disrupt these systems in a crisis. It's really hard to imagine this whole coup isn't some type of Russian / Chinese attack on the western world at this stage. It's too unbelievably good for them to just be a coincidence.

cglace 2y ago
People were worried about the economy and inflation. To say that most voters wanted to dismantle the government is a bit of a stretch. I remember all the posters here expressing their belief that Doge would do nothing and was just an advisory role.
- rs186 2y ago
  I agree, but I lament how voters quickly forget the chaos from the first Trump administration, and how much they didn't care about the DOGE agenda. They think they voted for a lower inflation (which is a very questionable premise by itself), but they didn't realize they were voting for the whole package. I definitely wasn't surprised, and American people deserve this. Hopefully the voters come to their mind in the next election, and hope it's not too late.
  - Swoerd 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - slt2021 2y ago
      even more stupid are Democrat party leadership who could have won past elections in a slam dunk, have they had thought about transition strategy in advance
      - johnnyanmac 2y ago
        They did... It's clear their strategies are at best outdated, or at worst more focused on a neoliberal policy over a proper socialist strategy (hence, them blocking Sanders out twice). I know it's small fries given current issues, but this is part of why I think (or thoght) the biggest focus for the people should be getting more states to adopt ranked choice voting. That's the only way out of this game theory disaster.
        esseph 2y ago
        The current push is to outlaw that across the country. Just happened in Missouri I believe.
        johnnyanmac 2y ago
        how disappointinig. Yet another front to battle on.A bit insane how a position like "I want my vote to matter more!" can become a partisan stance with the right propaganda.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    >They think they voted for a lower inflation (which is a very questionable premise by itself) https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/u-s-inflation-increases-to-3-percent-groceries-and-gasoline-prices-heading-higher https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/u-s-inflation-increases... And yet those people are so quiet at best. At worst they think "it has to get worse before it gets better". But yes, I do wish some signifigant portion of the voter base would simply inquire one step further on their represenatives. Trump had no action plans for this, and when sworn in he passed 100 EO's and left Inflation as "tbd". Still is, as far as I know.
- bamboozled 2y ago
  Which is weird because by the numbers, the economy was doing wonderfully. Maybe you meant to say. People were told an economy prophecy and believed it ? Even during campaigning the republicans literally warned people their vision would incur economy hardships but that it would be worth it in the long run. I get the frustration that the price of daily goods was too high but the incumbents did present an actual feasible plan to deal with it. So I’m not really sure it was about “the economy”. Anyway everything outlined in this article seemed pretty likely to happen, they literally told people their plans ?
  - lenerdenator 2y ago
    > I get the frustration that the price of daily goods was too high but the incumbents did present an actual feasible plan to deal with it. So I’m not really sure it was about “the economy”. As usual, it's about the allocation of surplus value. The US has enjoyed a great economy over the past four years, and really, even longer. I'm in my 30s and most of my life has been marked by economic expansion. The problem comes from the fact that we take all of the money generated by that economic expansion and pipe it to shareholders instead of labor. The average person cannot live solely off the returns from their equity investments; they have to work in order to pay bills. That work essentially started buying less over the last half-decade. Now, is that partially because of the Biden administration? Yes. Any time you print money, it devalues the money that already exists. But it's also, and more fundamentally, the fault of the first Trump administration. The PPP, funded with printed money, was a massive subsidy to upper-middle class Americans, and 35-ish years of GOP revenue policy made sure it has to be printed. The US had no reserves of cash to pay for an emergency like COVID. Why? Because we haven't had a real federal tax discussion since George HW Bush said "read my lips: no new taxes". That, of course, doesn't matter: the buck stops at the Oval Office, and Biden didn't have the likely personality disorder necessary to shove the buck back in people's faces on the order that Trump does. Neither did Harris. So back to the "glory" years of 2016-2019 we go, reckless monetary policy and all.
- intended 2y ago
  1) There is a group of voters, typically younger men, who would very much want to see things burn to the ground. A form of nihilism of outlook. 2) People never want the bad things, which is why voters tend to ignore information that tells them that things will be bad. People didnt realize that Biden had stepped down after the election. Voters were not aware that Obamacare and the ACA are the same thing. Information that this was going to happen, was shared, repeated and told over and over again. This is basically leopards-eating-face territory. Sugar coating it, leaving people berefet of their own authorship of their life, of their choices? I have no idea how that results in anything other than a way to feel nice about each other.
  - slt2021 2y ago
    >This is basically leopards-eating-face territory. young people are too poor and dont have much to lose. They wanted a break from the status quo, some new faces, other than DC establishment in power, and Trump is delivering on that demand
    - cglace 2y ago
      I'd think they would be interested in healthcare and the economy and not necessarily that we place conspiracy theorists in high positions. Unless the youth of today are that dumb.
      - slt2021 2y ago
        Every conspiracy is being confirmed, so I wouldnt be too harsh calling these conspiracies
        johnnyanmac 2y ago
        which conspiracies?
        slt2021 2y ago
        RFK Jr's book "The Real Anthony Fauci"[1], where he exposes the long history behind the creating custom designer viruses under the NIH umbrella, which led to COVID pandemic, and how every mainstream journo called him "conspiracy theorist". Turns out it was the lab leak after all, according to the CIA[2] This is the most important one, once we get to the bottom of who created virus that killed millions and caused tens of trillions in economic damage, it will cause other more significant events. Another one, how he explained the nature behind the Ukraine war, and how military industrial complex is stealing US government money and profiting off of artificially prolonging the Ukraine-Russia war[3]. Everyone called him conspiracy theorist, when he said BlackRock, Monsanto, DuPont have bought Ukrainian land, turns out it was true. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Real_Anthony_Fauci 2. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd9qjjj4zy5o 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWowuHMvpzU
IAmGraydon 2y ago
[flagged]
- Swoerd 2y ago
  [flagged]
- jodrellblank 2y ago
  It wasn't announced as 'DOGE' but it was not a surprise; from August: "Former President Donald Trump signaled his willingness to offer Elon Musk a role in his administration in a proposed “government efficiency commission” if he wins the presidential election in November"[1]. In the Republican Party Platform 2024: "2. Rein in Wasteful Federal Spending. Republicans will immediately stabilize the Economy by slashing wasteful Government spending"[2] [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2024/08/13/trump-backs-idea-of-musk-joining-government-efficiency-commission-if-he-wins-second-term/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2024/08/13/trump-b... [2] https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/2024-republican-party-platform https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/2024-republican-pa...
  - __egb__ 2y ago
    There have been plenty of government commissions in the past. None of them functioned anything like DOGE, not even the ones instituted by the current President during his first term. I think this is a surprise to many…even Trump’s more ardent supporters. After all, they thought they were voting for President Trump, not Assistant (to the) President Trump.
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      Hindsight is 20/20, but what's scarier to me is the approval ratings[0] There's still apparently 40% of the population that approves of this behavior. staggering 72% of republicans still approve of this behavior. This did spike his approval ratings, but such an utter breach in the government really should be much closer to democrat's 10% here instead of the normally middling behavior of "bad" president's 40%. There's stll way too many people approving of this. For reference, Nixon's ratings right before resigning was 24%. [0]: https://www.filesforprogress.org/datasets/2025/2/dfp_trump_admin_perceptions.pdf https://www.filesforprogress.org/datasets/2025/2/dfp_trump_a... (Page 2)
johnnyanmac 2y ago
>Let's not pretend this wasn't the likely conclusion and voters were solely focused on the price of eggs. Maybe I'm still naive, but I believe maybe 30-40% (At least) of trump voters simply 1) really wanted immprovements in their lives or 2)thought any pf the negatives of trump would not happen to them. Trump got the simple votes and discorded such people promptly. We'll see how long they, one by one, realize such a fact. Likewise, I doubt that many supporters voted with the idea that Trump would be put back in as a Sino-Ruso puppet. They would dimiss any such talk as conspiracy, no matter how many calls he makes/takes from Putin and how many docs he mishandles.

oneplane 2y ago

I wonder how that would work out. It's a bit of an inverse-Ouroboros where the people that are the government keep saying they are 'doing something about the government' without realising that that's them. Maybe they see themselves as something that is not the government, but the whole race they took part in was the race to get elected for government work. At some point, enough destruction will have happened where the tools for useful government functionality no longer exist in usable capacity.

dandanua 2y ago
I tell you more. They don't just consider themselves as a government, they don't consider themselves as humans either. They want to be a different kind of species, they want to be above humans, just like humans are above the cattle. And in some sense they are, if so many people were stupid enough to get them elected.

kombine 2y ago

Trump's admin already said that they will defy court rulings.

perrygeo 2y ago
Worse, JD Vance has said repeatedly that they WANT courts to rule against them, so that they can directly challenge the court's power. I believe his exact words were "Let the court enforce it." Which of course is a sick joke - courts have no enforcement power without the executive branch. They fully intend to cause a constitutional crisis on purpose. It's all in plain sight, in their own words. America will get what it voted for.
johnnyanmac 2y ago
Good. Nothing more wrathful than a Judge out for blood. let all the civil and criminal contempt fly out the aisles

dariusj18 2y ago

There's a reason Musk brought in younglings to do the illegal stuff. To ignorant to know that in a few years they will be in jail.

lenerdenator 2y ago
Will they be? The last ten years have been an exercise in "they will be in jail" without any one of import actually going to jail. Hell, not many have even been arrested.
- SpaceNoodled 2y ago
  A bunch of insurrectionists were in jail, but then something happened and the inmates are now running the asylum.
  - lenerdenator 2y ago
    The people that mattered didn't see jail. That's the problem.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  >without any one of import actually going to jail. I'd argue these kids won't "be of import" in the long scheme of things. Maybe in future software ethics/security classes at best. I sadly don't think Musk will ever be in a jailcell, but I'll settle for him never stepping foot in a federal facility again.
barkingcat 2y ago
nah, in a few years, they will be rich beyond your imagination, and they will be set up to be next in succession to be king of the us.
- yencabulator 2y ago
  I think you mean vassals of Elon's gene carriers.

Swoerd 2y ago

"I should add, this consequence should be legislative or legal in nature." Should it be?

rat87 2y ago
Yes Its illegal for a reason. The only good counterargument I've seen is that it might encourage worse actions to try to evade punishment.
johnnyanmac 2y ago
Ideally, yes. Leaves little wiggle room, settles things with minimal bloodshed, and stamps a nigh objecive ruling. But if blood is spilt, it'll slow things down in ways congress seems unable to do. Not stop, but slow down.