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May be it unifies Europe a little more.. European Defense org that has a mandate to build out capacity for defense equipment production in the EU member countri

May be it unifies Europe a little more.. European Defense org that has a mandate to build out capacity for defense equipment production in the EU member countries.. spend 5% GDP that employs EU citizens in turn. Just like the US does.. May be it grants the wish of the Americans to stop relaying on them(also stop/reduce buying American defense systems).

jltsiren 2y ago
Nobody is expected to take the 5% goal seriously. Even the US has not reached that level since 1992, with the current defense spending at 3.4%. If the US decided to leave NATO completely, European military spending might stabilize somewhere around 3%, with lower spending in the west and higher in the east. At that level, the overall spending would be a bit below US figures in absolute terms and higher than the US in PPP terms.
- verzali 2y ago
  How can you say that? People have consistently said not to take Trump seriously. But he does seem serious about imposing tariffs, abandoning allies, annexing random parts of the world, and about drastically cutting the government. Why shouldn't we take the 5% thing seriously? What can be more serious than this anyway?
  - jltsiren 2y ago
    Because 3% would already be enough to make the US irrelevant for European security. At that level of spending, the combined military power of European NATO member states would eventually be comparable to the US. If Trump kept insisting for more, European leaders would just call his bluff. And maybe even secretly hope that the unreliable partner would leave NATO.
  - rnd0 2y ago
    Trump is a puppet. The people pulling his strings, however, should be taken very seriously. This video breaks down who those people are as well as what their motivations are: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RpPTRcz1no https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RpPTRcz1no
- ChocolateGod 2y ago
  > If the US decided to leave NATO completely If the US decided to leave NATO, given much of the hostility to it is because it's seen by countries like Russia to extend US influence and troops, I wouldn't be surprised if European countries could spend less on defence.
verzali 2y ago
America has a weird stance on this. They have consistently opposed European efforts to develop independent military tech - see what they did to British nuclear and missile programs, and how they have fought against the French desire to maintain their own defense programs. Now they seem to want to abandon Europe and blame them for not having their own military hardware.
- munksbeer 2y ago
  > Now they seem to want to abandon Europe We should be clear here, who "they" are. Trump is Trump, he is a populist, so he'll just do whatever. The question is, is the support for his type of populism embedded in the US now, or not. I don't think it is, I think the US will see through his type of populism at some point. So I don't think the US will be abandoning Europe in the medium or longer term, and mostly only making noises about it in the short term. I think it is worthwhile for Europe to mitigate the short term, strengthen its military, but we should be aiming to keep the medium term alliance with the US going.
  - rnd0 2y ago
    They is NOT Trump; THEY is Musk and he has economic ties to China and Russia. Musk the lens that all future U.S. actions and rhetoric needs to be seen through, at least in the near-term.

jltsiren 2y ago

Nobody is expected to take the 5% goal seriously. Even the US has not reached that level since 1992, with the current defense spending at 3.4%. If the US decided to leave NATO completely, European military spending might stabilize somewhere around 3%, with lower spending in the west and higher in the east. At that level, the overall spending would be a bit below US figures in absolute terms and higher than the US in PPP terms.

verzali 2y ago
How can you say that? People have consistently said not to take Trump seriously. But he does seem serious about imposing tariffs, abandoning allies, annexing random parts of the world, and about drastically cutting the government. Why shouldn't we take the 5% thing seriously? What can be more serious than this anyway?
- jltsiren 2y ago
  Because 3% would already be enough to make the US irrelevant for European security. At that level of spending, the combined military power of European NATO member states would eventually be comparable to the US. If Trump kept insisting for more, European leaders would just call his bluff. And maybe even secretly hope that the unreliable partner would leave NATO.
- rnd0 2y ago
  Trump is a puppet. The people pulling his strings, however, should be taken very seriously. This video breaks down who those people are as well as what their motivations are: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RpPTRcz1no https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RpPTRcz1no
ChocolateGod 2y ago
> If the US decided to leave NATO completely If the US decided to leave NATO, given much of the hostility to it is because it's seen by countries like Russia to extend US influence and troops, I wouldn't be surprised if European countries could spend less on defence.

verzali 2y ago

America has a weird stance on this. They have consistently opposed European efforts to develop independent military tech - see what they did to British nuclear and missile programs, and how they have fought against the French desire to maintain their own defense programs. Now they seem to want to abandon Europe and blame them for not having their own military hardware.

munksbeer 2y ago
> Now they seem to want to abandon Europe We should be clear here, who "they" are. Trump is Trump, he is a populist, so he'll just do whatever. The question is, is the support for his type of populism embedded in the US now, or not. I don't think it is, I think the US will see through his type of populism at some point. So I don't think the US will be abandoning Europe in the medium or longer term, and mostly only making noises about it in the short term. I think it is worthwhile for Europe to mitigate the short term, strengthen its military, but we should be aiming to keep the medium term alliance with the US going.
- rnd0 2y ago
  They is NOT Trump; THEY is Musk and he has economic ties to China and Russia. Musk the lens that all future U.S. actions and rhetoric needs to be seen through, at least in the near-term.