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Psychologists, in my experience, seem to be strangely unaware of what is taken seriously by other psychologists. They're generally 50/50 on Freud, for instance,

Psychologists, in my experience, seem to be strangely unaware of what is taken seriously by other psychologists. They're generally 50/50 on Freud, for instance, and the half who don't care much for him also don't think anyone does.

Lionga 2y ago
Probably because Psychology is super individual und culturally dependent. Nothing Psychologists ever "find out" generally applies, but just happens in their little circle und their circumstances in their time.
- DiscourseFan 2y ago
  Except the incest taboo, which is not culturally dependent.
  - wincy 2y ago
    I don’t know, I read a Pakistan Today article where a doctor said cousin marriage is no big deal as it “only” causes defects in 2% of cases. Interestingly, this article is now impossible to find on Google. You can find a dozen news articles of people in the UK arguing about this. Hopefully the discourse is shifting, but a culture can be dysfunctional (like allowing first cousin or even worse double first cousin marriages, for example) for a very long time before it collapses.
    - DiscourseFan 2y ago
      Everywhere has an incest taboo, just not necessarily the same one.
    - rusk 2y ago
      Pretty sure I could find cousins marrying in Arkansas. No need to go to Pakistan. Ugly though it may be, it’s not big-I incest.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Der_Einzige 2y ago
The people who still think Freud is relevant are known as “psychoanalysists” in the same way that we separate chiropractors (loony fake back doctors, equiv to psychoanalysis) from real back doctors.
- DiscourseFan 2y ago
  Found one! But seriously, if you don't like Freud, you're going to have to come up with a better response than just saying he's a kook; we all know he's a kook! A) Talk therapy was the mode invented by Freud and is still the dominant modality of psychotherapy today, and B) While you didn't mention it but, at the time, Cocaine was in common use as a near magical local anaesthetic and from it we derive procaine, lidocaine, any drug ending in -caine, which you certainly have been administered before, and C)If all we have in our psychological and social lives are narratives, and the narratives bind us into certain patterns which we don't even realize we are following, then the counter to that cannot be another narrative which equally obscures its reproductive capacity (ie "the data"). Freud created stories that untied themselves at their roots, that put patients, not to mention regular people, ill at ease. Even sex with siblings is less taboo, certainly less universally taboo, than sex with one's parents, even if the latter is more genetically troublesome--is this an accident? The stories got to things at their base level, which was impossible by any other means. They might be a bit weird, but they force you to think, maybe even to act differently under the right circumstances (those of treatment), and the latter is what we'd call medical care, no?
  - scotty79 2y ago
    > we all know he's a kook! I still don't know what's the holdup then. Freud constructed narratives as we all do but his were deranged so why bother even mention him as anything other than the butt of the joke?
    - DiscourseFan 2y ago
      That you react so strongly is the proof that they touched a nerve. They could be kooky stories that you just forgot about, instead you’re incensed any time anyone mentions him. Why do so many people care about it? That’s the trick.
dkarl 2y ago
I think the 50/50 on Freud is an overrated/underrated equilibrium. Most of the Freud "fans" and Freud "haters" don't estimate him differently because they disagree about the correctness of specific Freudian theories; they mostly just feel that his legacy is overvalued or undervalued, or that his prominence in popular culture has been helpful versus harmful to the field. It's like asking basketball fans about Michael Jordan and getting answers that vary greatly depending on what they think is the right way to compare him to current players.
- DiscourseFan 2y ago
  See Der_Einzige's comment below.
  - dkarl 2y ago
    I think the people Der_Einzige refers to who are practicing Freudian psychoanalysis today using anything resembling Freud's original ideas are a tiny minority, and you could toss them out without affecting the 50/50 balance. Der_Einzige thinks Freud should be judged negatively because his ideas are discredited in detail and have been replaced by newer and better clinical approaches. Another person might have completely identical views with Der_Einzige about the current clinical worth of Freud's ideas yet judge Freud positively because he was a keen and empathetic observer of his patients, because he legitimized the concept of unconscious psychological processes in the public mind, and because he raised the profile of psychological medical care and made it more socially acceptable. The same person could even feel different ways on different days without changing their mind at all.

Lionga 2y ago

Probably because Psychology is super individual und culturally dependent. Nothing Psychologists ever "find out" generally applies, but just happens in their little circle und their circumstances in their time.

DiscourseFan 2y ago
Except the incest taboo, which is not culturally dependent.
- wincy 2y ago
  I don’t know, I read a Pakistan Today article where a doctor said cousin marriage is no big deal as it “only” causes defects in 2% of cases. Interestingly, this article is now impossible to find on Google. You can find a dozen news articles of people in the UK arguing about this. Hopefully the discourse is shifting, but a culture can be dysfunctional (like allowing first cousin or even worse double first cousin marriages, for example) for a very long time before it collapses.
  - DiscourseFan 2y ago
    Everywhere has an incest taboo, just not necessarily the same one.
  - rusk 2y ago
    Pretty sure I could find cousins marrying in Arkansas. No need to go to Pakistan. Ugly though it may be, it’s not big-I incest.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Der_Einzige 2y ago

The people who still think Freud is relevant are known as “psychoanalysists” in the same way that we separate chiropractors (loony fake back doctors, equiv to psychoanalysis) from real back doctors.

DiscourseFan 2y ago
Found one! But seriously, if you don't like Freud, you're going to have to come up with a better response than just saying he's a kook; we all know he's a kook! A) Talk therapy was the mode invented by Freud and is still the dominant modality of psychotherapy today, and B) While you didn't mention it but, at the time, Cocaine was in common use as a near magical local anaesthetic and from it we derive procaine, lidocaine, any drug ending in -caine, which you certainly have been administered before, and C)If all we have in our psychological and social lives are narratives, and the narratives bind us into certain patterns which we don't even realize we are following, then the counter to that cannot be another narrative which equally obscures its reproductive capacity (ie "the data"). Freud created stories that untied themselves at their roots, that put patients, not to mention regular people, ill at ease. Even sex with siblings is less taboo, certainly less universally taboo, than sex with one's parents, even if the latter is more genetically troublesome--is this an accident? The stories got to things at their base level, which was impossible by any other means. They might be a bit weird, but they force you to think, maybe even to act differently under the right circumstances (those of treatment), and the latter is what we'd call medical care, no?
- scotty79 2y ago
  > we all know he's a kook! I still don't know what's the holdup then. Freud constructed narratives as we all do but his were deranged so why bother even mention him as anything other than the butt of the joke?
  - DiscourseFan 2y ago
    That you react so strongly is the proof that they touched a nerve. They could be kooky stories that you just forgot about, instead you’re incensed any time anyone mentions him. Why do so many people care about it? That’s the trick.

dkarl 2y ago

I think the 50/50 on Freud is an overrated/underrated equilibrium. Most of the Freud "fans" and Freud "haters" don't estimate him differently because they disagree about the correctness of specific Freudian theories; they mostly just feel that his legacy is overvalued or undervalued, or that his prominence in popular culture has been helpful versus harmful to the field. It's like asking basketball fans about Michael Jordan and getting answers that vary greatly depending on what they think is the right way to compare him to current players.

DiscourseFan 2y ago
See Der_Einzige's comment below.
- dkarl 2y ago
  I think the people Der_Einzige refers to who are practicing Freudian psychoanalysis today using anything resembling Freud's original ideas are a tiny minority, and you could toss them out without affecting the 50/50 balance. Der_Einzige thinks Freud should be judged negatively because his ideas are discredited in detail and have been replaced by newer and better clinical approaches. Another person might have completely identical views with Der_Einzige about the current clinical worth of Freud's ideas yet judge Freud positively because he was a keen and empathetic observer of his patients, because he legitimized the concept of unconscious psychological processes in the public mind, and because he raised the profile of psychological medical care and made it more socially acceptable. The same person could even feel different ways on different days without changing their mind at all.