3 ms·

I’m OOTL with all the Phillips hate in this thread. Is there a good reason to prefer other patterns or is it simply bandwagoning?

barbazoo 2y ago
I have 2 different size Robertson bits but about 25 different sizes and shapes Philips bit. It’s super annoying. Use the “wrong” bit and it’s easy to strip the head. It’s just not a problem with Robertson or better yet, those star shaped ones.
- GuB-42 2y ago
  There are literally 25 sizes of Torx bits (the star shaped ones), plus some variants ("security", plus, ttap, ...). That's actually one reason people complain about Torx compared to, say, Robertson. Unlike with Philips, you are less likely to use the wrong bit by accident though. One of the worst things with Philips is that there is a very similar and very popular drive called Pozidriv, and you sometimes find both on the same piece of equipment, adding to the confusion. Using the wrong driver kind of works, but with a good chance of stripping the head or damaging the bit.
  - barbazoo 2y ago
    You're right obviously, I shouldn't have used Torx as an example here. The only difference that someone else mentioned somewhere was that it's more difficult to use the wrong size one.
exmadscientist 2y ago
Phillips is designed to cam out, typically resulting in damage to the fastener if the operator isn't quick enough to react. Torx and Robertson simply do not do that. They just work and that is really worth it!
andrewmcwatters 2y ago
It is absolutely not bandwagoning. The torque tolerances of most Phillips head fasteners are abysmally low and most brand-name impact drivers will damage the recess compromising the fastener after installation. It's an outright scam to use them in construction compared to Torx and Robertson which thankfully are slowly replacing them in use.
aaronmdjones 2y ago
I would never use a Phillips screw in anything that needs to be maintained over time. They're just far too easy to strip, and they're easier still if you get the wrong size driver. For example, a PH3 driver in a PH2 screw or vice versa are a disaster waiting to happen. Pozidriv screws are marginally better in this regard. You can use a Phillips driver in a Pozidriv screw, but to get the best benefit you will need a matching Pozidriv driver instead. The possibility of user error due to driver size mismatch remains. Note that the opposite is not true; using a Pozidriv driver to drive a Phillips screw will do even more damage than a Phillips driver ever could when the screw bottoms out, on top of damaging the driver itself. Torx screws are far better, and unlike Phillips and Pozidriv, the wrong size Torx bit will simply either completely not fit, or wiggle and spin fairly freely. If it does spin due to being undersized, the only damage you're risking is usually to the driver, leaving the screw still usable and removable. Note that the usual caveats about torque apply. If you're using an impact driver that kicks out over 200 Nm on its highest setting, you'd better be using a driver and a screw rated for that, regardless of what you end up using. Or you will snap something either way.
int_19h 2y ago
It's not just Philips. The common hex screws are also very prone to stripping. Torx is pretty much impossible to mess up short of overtightening it.

barbazoo 2y ago

I have 2 different size Robertson bits but about 25 different sizes and shapes Philips bit. It’s super annoying. Use the “wrong” bit and it’s easy to strip the head. It’s just not a problem with Robertson or better yet, those star shaped ones.

GuB-42 2y ago
There are literally 25 sizes of Torx bits (the star shaped ones), plus some variants ("security", plus, ttap, ...). That's actually one reason people complain about Torx compared to, say, Robertson. Unlike with Philips, you are less likely to use the wrong bit by accident though. One of the worst things with Philips is that there is a very similar and very popular drive called Pozidriv, and you sometimes find both on the same piece of equipment, adding to the confusion. Using the wrong driver kind of works, but with a good chance of stripping the head or damaging the bit.
- barbazoo 2y ago
  You're right obviously, I shouldn't have used Torx as an example here. The only difference that someone else mentioned somewhere was that it's more difficult to use the wrong size one.

exmadscientist 2y ago

Phillips is designed to cam out, typically resulting in damage to the fastener if the operator isn't quick enough to react. Torx and Robertson simply do not do that. They just work and that is really worth it!

andrewmcwatters 2y ago

It is absolutely not bandwagoning. The torque tolerances of most Phillips head fasteners are abysmally low and most brand-name impact drivers will damage the recess compromising the fastener after installation. It's an outright scam to use them in construction compared to Torx and Robertson which thankfully are slowly replacing them in use.

aaronmdjones 2y ago

I would never use a Phillips screw in anything that needs to be maintained over time. They're just far too easy to strip, and they're easier still if you get the wrong size driver. For example, a PH3 driver in a PH2 screw or vice versa are a disaster waiting to happen. Pozidriv screws are marginally better in this regard. You can use a Phillips driver in a Pozidriv screw, but to get the best benefit you will need a matching Pozidriv driver instead. The possibility of user error due to driver size mismatch remains. Note that the opposite is not true; using a Pozidriv driver to drive a Phillips screw will do even more damage than a Phillips driver ever could when the screw bottoms out, on top of damaging the driver itself. Torx screws are far better, and unlike Phillips and Pozidriv, the wrong size Torx bit will simply either completely not fit, or wiggle and spin fairly freely. If it does spin due to being undersized, the only damage you're risking is usually to the driver, leaving the screw still usable and removable. Note that the usual caveats about torque apply. If you're using an impact driver that kicks out over 200 Nm on its highest setting, you'd better be using a driver and a screw rated for that, regardless of what you end up using. Or you will snap something either way.

int_19h 2y ago

It's not just Philips. The common hex screws are also very prone to stripping. Torx is pretty much impossible to mess up short of overtightening it.