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Oh wow, a coffee-maker/fax-machine. I’ve used, collected, lost, sharpened, broken more drill bits and drivers than I can count. I’ve never wished for a worse dr

Oh wow, a coffee-maker/fax-machine. I’ve used, collected, lost, sharpened, broken more drill bits and drivers than I can count. I’ve never wished for a worse drill bit attached to a worse screw driver. I bet they’ll sell a lot of these to homeowners with deck projects, or small softwood projects, and I bet they’ll work just fine for that. The use case limits how hard they can make these. Absolutely the philips head will get munged being used as a drill bit, and then it’ll cam out of screws at the wrong time. If your driver bit is much harder than your screws then the screws will get stripped. A stripped screw in something important is worse than a broken driver.

cjbgkagh 2y ago
I was about to write something similar. I am surprised by how many are taking this idea seriously, here on HN and I guess Good Design Australia.
- bayindirh 2y ago
  Driver bits wear down like drill bits when used in these kinds of settings, as well. So if you're working with wood, both of the functions might wear down equally, so there's no harm done.
  - cjbgkagh 2y ago
    I'm having a hard time understanding your statement. Both functions are done by the same head so if there is any wear from either function both functions are impaired. An entirely worse scenario than using two separate bits. This combo-bit is essentially an exceptionally dull 4 fluted drill bit. Any time possibly saved in not swapping bits is lost to the slower drilling speed due to the dullness. The fact that it only works with Phillips screw heads also slows things down due to the greater care needed to avoid stripping the screw head and the work required to remove a stripped screw head when it does occur. It's not like people have not though about how to do this faster it is just that there are existing alternative solutions that are far superior. Amortizing swaps over multiple screws, using a second drill, having a quick change chuck, using self tapping screws and possibly others that I don't know about.
    - bayindirh 2y ago
      The drilling efficiency of a wood-bit is not only comes from the tip, the bit is razor sharp throughout to effectively drill and smooth the hole at the same time. In terms of this particular bit, while it's not the fastest I have seen (and I semi-regularly use a drill with any and every material), it's not particularly inefficient on what it looks like not-very-soft wood. > Phillips screw heads also slows things down due to the greater care needed to avoid... It has a Pozidriv version too as the article notes. Also it's worth noting that even though you don't slip a Phillips or Pozi screw, the driver gets nicked and worn drive by the constant application of torque repeatedly. Even my Weras show some wear even though I give the utmost care I can give. I'd use that thing at home for light duty stuff, or use it for a very long heavier duty job and might get rid of it at the end of the day. Self tapping screws do not drive so cleanly most of the time, so I'd not prefer them for the places I see every day. They're good for places I can't see at the end of the day.
      - shaftway 2y ago
        > I'd use that thing at home for light duty stuff I know he's drilling into hardwood, but look how hard he has to press to drill into it. Doesn't look particularly light duty to me. > having a quick change chuck This is the way. Under $10 at Home depot for one of these and you can swap 1/4" hex shank bits in less time than you can say "swap 1/4 inch hex shank bits".
zonkerdonker 2y ago
Oof. Yeah this shouldve stayed a render. The headline tells me all I need to know. Industrial designer creating a tool is like a graphic designer making a bridge. To any industrial designers here, this is said with minimum animosity, the arts are important and I cherish them. But for the love of god, if you send me over another step file with a surfacing update that has moved the model coodinate system like 3 microns and changed almost nothing else I might come over and throw your macbook out the window. With love - a mechanical engineer
prescriptivist 2y ago
[flagged]
- mizzao 2y ago
  Thank you for a fantastic piece of writing
- forgetfreeman 2y ago
  You ok over there? Combo meal tools invariably suck at all of the tasks they claim to solve. Nothing controversial enough there to warrant a response much less snark.
  - laszlokorte 2y ago
    Except emacs
    - forgetfreeman 2y ago
      I'll have to try that next time I start a new construction project. What aisle does Lowes stock emacs on?
- manmal 2y ago
  GP is absolutely right, though. I also won’t be having this bit with me when I’m drilling something else than wood. We should also ask ourselves, why are not all, or at least any, drill heads philips-shaped if they are a viable option? EDIT: Removed some
- sonofhans 2y ago
  Ha! None of those things are true, but it is funny. I am just a homeowner, and I do plenty of small softwood projects. I use purpose-built tools, though, ones that will last.
- shaky-carrousel 2y ago
  Eh, don't worry. I've learnt not to take HN too seriously since Dropbox launched.
jdietrich 2y ago
There's a reason why they sell philips bits in boxes of 25. https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-48-32-4604-Phillips-Shockwave-Contractor/dp/B07FB9515L https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-48-32-4604-Phillips-Shockwa...
- hengheng 2y ago
  The cheap ones, not the good ones. If there's a box of two bits for the same price right next to this one, I know which one I'd rather buy. Good hardening is expensive.
  - jdietrich 2y ago
    No bit can survive for long if you're driving hundreds of screws with an impact driver. A very hard bit designed for hand tools will just shatter if you're hitting it with huge pulses of torque; sheared off wings are the usual failure mode for quality philips driver bits. Torx bits hold up better, but they're still a consumable item.
    - sfn42 2y ago
      Who uses an impact driver with Philips screws? I guess maybe if you're driving huge screws for framing something heavy but even then I've never felt the need for an impact driver. And I usually use torx anyway
      - vrosas 2y ago
        Seriously? I only own a Milwaukee impact driver and use it for everything.
        sfn42 2y ago
        I've worked in construction for years and we never used impact drivers for wood screws. I could see some use cases for them with really large wood screws, but the Makita drill I used was beefy as shit and never had any trouble. Maybe it's better for big screws but I can't really see why you'd use them for small screws.
beAbU 2y ago
I'm also somewhat critical of this invention, but I reckon the use case is very niche, and might only really apply in certain applications like the hypothetical deck project you mention. Projects where you need to drive a ton of screws in very quickly. But... I feel there are other tools/solutions in this space that work much better: self-drilling screws, nailguns, nailguns-but-for-screws, etc.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
madaxe_again 2y ago
All true - but then again, torx bits tend to last a hell of a lot longer than philips or posidrive, as they just don’t cam out - and this design could possibly actually work if it had a torx head instead of philips. That said it takes me all of two seconds to switch from a torx bit to a drill bit, and I tend to do all my drilling then all my screwing to reduce the need for tool changes.
charles_f 2y ago
I think the best use case is as one of these free drill bits they give you with a box of screws and anchors.

cjbgkagh 2y ago

I was about to write something similar. I am surprised by how many are taking this idea seriously, here on HN and I guess Good Design Australia.

bayindirh 2y ago
Driver bits wear down like drill bits when used in these kinds of settings, as well. So if you're working with wood, both of the functions might wear down equally, so there's no harm done.
- cjbgkagh 2y ago
  I'm having a hard time understanding your statement. Both functions are done by the same head so if there is any wear from either function both functions are impaired. An entirely worse scenario than using two separate bits. This combo-bit is essentially an exceptionally dull 4 fluted drill bit. Any time possibly saved in not swapping bits is lost to the slower drilling speed due to the dullness. The fact that it only works with Phillips screw heads also slows things down due to the greater care needed to avoid stripping the screw head and the work required to remove a stripped screw head when it does occur. It's not like people have not though about how to do this faster it is just that there are existing alternative solutions that are far superior. Amortizing swaps over multiple screws, using a second drill, having a quick change chuck, using self tapping screws and possibly others that I don't know about.
  - bayindirh 2y ago
    The drilling efficiency of a wood-bit is not only comes from the tip, the bit is razor sharp throughout to effectively drill and smooth the hole at the same time. In terms of this particular bit, while it's not the fastest I have seen (and I semi-regularly use a drill with any and every material), it's not particularly inefficient on what it looks like not-very-soft wood. > Phillips screw heads also slows things down due to the greater care needed to avoid... It has a Pozidriv version too as the article notes. Also it's worth noting that even though you don't slip a Phillips or Pozi screw, the driver gets nicked and worn drive by the constant application of torque repeatedly. Even my Weras show some wear even though I give the utmost care I can give. I'd use that thing at home for light duty stuff, or use it for a very long heavier duty job and might get rid of it at the end of the day. Self tapping screws do not drive so cleanly most of the time, so I'd not prefer them for the places I see every day. They're good for places I can't see at the end of the day.
    - shaftway 2y ago
      > I'd use that thing at home for light duty stuff I know he's drilling into hardwood, but look how hard he has to press to drill into it. Doesn't look particularly light duty to me. > having a quick change chuck This is the way. Under $10 at Home depot for one of these and you can swap 1/4" hex shank bits in less time than you can say "swap 1/4 inch hex shank bits".

zonkerdonker 2y ago

Oof. Yeah this shouldve stayed a render. The headline tells me all I need to know. Industrial designer creating a tool is like a graphic designer making a bridge. To any industrial designers here, this is said with minimum animosity, the arts are important and I cherish them. But for the love of god, if you send me over another step file with a surfacing update that has moved the model coodinate system like 3 microns and changed almost nothing else I might come over and throw your macbook out the window. With love - a mechanical engineer

prescriptivist 2y ago

[flagged]

mizzao 2y ago
Thank you for a fantastic piece of writing
forgetfreeman 2y ago
You ok over there? Combo meal tools invariably suck at all of the tasks they claim to solve. Nothing controversial enough there to warrant a response much less snark.
- laszlokorte 2y ago
  Except emacs
  - forgetfreeman 2y ago
    I'll have to try that next time I start a new construction project. What aisle does Lowes stock emacs on?
manmal 2y ago
GP is absolutely right, though. I also won’t be having this bit with me when I’m drilling something else than wood. We should also ask ourselves, why are not all, or at least any, drill heads philips-shaped if they are a viable option? EDIT: Removed some
sonofhans 2y ago
Ha! None of those things are true, but it is funny. I am just a homeowner, and I do plenty of small softwood projects. I use purpose-built tools, though, ones that will last.
shaky-carrousel 2y ago
Eh, don't worry. I've learnt not to take HN too seriously since Dropbox launched.

jdietrich 2y ago

There's a reason why they sell philips bits in boxes of 25. https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-48-32-4604-Phillips-Shockwave-Contractor/dp/B07FB9515L https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-48-32-4604-Phillips-Shockwa...

hengheng 2y ago
The cheap ones, not the good ones. If there's a box of two bits for the same price right next to this one, I know which one I'd rather buy. Good hardening is expensive.
- jdietrich 2y ago
  No bit can survive for long if you're driving hundreds of screws with an impact driver. A very hard bit designed for hand tools will just shatter if you're hitting it with huge pulses of torque; sheared off wings are the usual failure mode for quality philips driver bits. Torx bits hold up better, but they're still a consumable item.
  - sfn42 2y ago
    Who uses an impact driver with Philips screws? I guess maybe if you're driving huge screws for framing something heavy but even then I've never felt the need for an impact driver. And I usually use torx anyway
    - vrosas 2y ago
      Seriously? I only own a Milwaukee impact driver and use it for everything.
      - sfn42 2y ago
        I've worked in construction for years and we never used impact drivers for wood screws. I could see some use cases for them with really large wood screws, but the Makita drill I used was beefy as shit and never had any trouble. Maybe it's better for big screws but I can't really see why you'd use them for small screws.

beAbU 2y ago

I'm also somewhat critical of this invention, but I reckon the use case is very niche, and might only really apply in certain applications like the hypothetical deck project you mention. Projects where you need to drive a ton of screws in very quickly. But... I feel there are other tools/solutions in this space that work much better: self-drilling screws, nailguns, nailguns-but-for-screws, etc.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

madaxe_again 2y ago

All true - but then again, torx bits tend to last a hell of a lot longer than philips or posidrive, as they just don’t cam out - and this design could possibly actually work if it had a torx head instead of philips. That said it takes me all of two seconds to switch from a torx bit to a drill bit, and I tend to do all my drilling then all my screwing to reduce the need for tool changes.

charles_f 2y ago

I think the best use case is as one of these free drill bits they give you with a box of screws and anchors.