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> reality is that a culture of selfishness has become too widespread. Tale as old as time. We’re yet another society blinded by our own hubris. Tell me what is

> reality is that a culture of selfishness has become too widespread. Tale as old as time. We’re yet another society blinded by our own hubris. Tell me what is happening now is not exactly how Greece and Rome fell. The scary part is that we as a species are becoming more and more capable of large scale destruction. Seems like we are doomed to end civilization this way someday

hnbad 2y ago
> Tell me what is happening now is not exactly how Greece and Rome fell. I'm not sure what you mean by that. Ancient Greece was a loose coalition of city states, not an empire. You could say they were short-sighted by being more concerned about their rivalry than external threats but the closest they came to being united was under Alexander the Great, whose death left a power vacuum. There was no direct cause of "the fall" of Ancient Greece. The city states were suffering greatly from social inequality, which created tensions and instability. They were militarily weakened from the war with the Persians. Alexander's death left them without a unifying force. Then the Roman Empire knocked on its door and that was the end of it. Rome likewise didn't fall in one single way. "Rome" isn't even what people think it is. Roman history spans several different entities and even if you talk about the "empire in decline" that's covering literally hundreds of years, ending with the Holy Roman Empire, which has been retroactively reimagined as a kind of proto-Germany. But even then that's only the Western Roman Empire - the Eastern Roman Empire continued to exist as the Byzantine Empire until the Ottoman Empire conquered Constaninople. And this distinction between the two empires is likewise retroactive and did not exist in the minds of Romans at the time (although they were de facto independent of each other). If you only focus on the century or so that is generally considered to represent the fall of Western Rome, the ultimate root cause actually seems to be natural climate change. The Huns fled climate change, chasing away other groups that then fled into the Empire. Late Western Rome also again suffered from massive wealth inequality, which the ruling class attempted to maintain with increasingly cruel punishments. So, if you want to look for a common thread, it seems to be the hubris of the financial elite, not "society" as a whole.
- timacles 2y ago
  Yes that is exactly what I mean lol

hnbad 2y ago

> Tell me what is happening now is not exactly how Greece and Rome fell. I'm not sure what you mean by that. Ancient Greece was a loose coalition of city states, not an empire. You could say they were short-sighted by being more concerned about their rivalry than external threats but the closest they came to being united was under Alexander the Great, whose death left a power vacuum. There was no direct cause of "the fall" of Ancient Greece. The city states were suffering greatly from social inequality, which created tensions and instability. They were militarily weakened from the war with the Persians. Alexander's death left them without a unifying force. Then the Roman Empire knocked on its door and that was the end of it. Rome likewise didn't fall in one single way. "Rome" isn't even what people think it is. Roman history spans several different entities and even if you talk about the "empire in decline" that's covering literally hundreds of years, ending with the Holy Roman Empire, which has been retroactively reimagined as a kind of proto-Germany. But even then that's only the Western Roman Empire - the Eastern Roman Empire continued to exist as the Byzantine Empire until the Ottoman Empire conquered Constaninople. And this distinction between the two empires is likewise retroactive and did not exist in the minds of Romans at the time (although they were de facto independent of each other). If you only focus on the century or so that is generally considered to represent the fall of Western Rome, the ultimate root cause actually seems to be natural climate change. The Huns fled climate change, chasing away other groups that then fled into the Empire. Late Western Rome also again suffered from massive wealth inequality, which the ruling class attempted to maintain with increasingly cruel punishments. So, if you want to look for a common thread, it seems to be the hubris of the financial elite, not "society" as a whole.

timacles 2y ago
Yes that is exactly what I mean lol