7 ms·

I got a 5G capable phone a few months back, and I can't say I've noticed a difference from my old one. (Aside from the new phone being more expensive, worse UI,

I got a 5G capable phone a few months back, and I can't say I've noticed a difference from my old one. (Aside from the new phone being more expensive, worse UI, slower, heavier, unwieldy, filled with ads, and constantly prompting me to create a "Samsung account".)

dclowd9901 2y ago
I've found 1-bar 4G LTE to actually be enough to do work on at home, to my surprise (in the occasions that my in-the-ground cable connection up and dies on me). Only thing I don't get is Zoom with that, but it's nice to have a good excuse not to be in a meeting.
- readthenotes1 2y ago
  Well, I believe you can try audio only to reduce the bandwidth requirements. That was my excuse for anything below five bars...
fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
What's any of that have to do with 5G? On 2 bars of 5G right now and I get 650Mbit download speed, it's significantly faster than 4G.
- James_K 2y ago
  The last bit is just stuff I wanted to whine about. I obviously know it is faster, you don't need to explain that concept. I have just never had need of any significant internet speed on my phone. I don't download things, and only sometimes stream video. Most of the time I am just checking emails, or calendars, or something trivial like that. Unless I do some kind of benchmark, I can't notice the difference between 4G and 5G.
  - jfengel 2y ago
    It would matter more if you were in a crowded place, with more users taking up the spectrum. But yeah, as with computer speed, ordinary applications maxed out a while back.
    - readthenotes1 2y ago
      That's a very interesting observation - - the bandwidth requirement is more for the transmitter than the receiver as we get more and more connected devices
  - dylan604 2y ago
    If 5G lived up to everything it was touted to do, you could use a 5G hotspot for your home internet would could be a huge positive in areas that only have one ISP available. However, 5G does not live up to the promises, and your traffic is much more heavily shaped than non-wireless ISPs.
    - vel0city 2y ago
      I know many households which use 5G hotspots for home internet. They even do cloud-rendered gaming and remote telework on such setups. Consistently get several hundred megabits at pretty decent latency and jitter. I'd say that lives up to many promises.
      - dylan604 2y ago
        And I know just as many that have tried but get crap service, so we're even now? I barely get regular cell service in my house from my provider. There's no way I'd get a hotspot for a service that is a must have. Provider's "coverage" maps are such a joke to make them useless.
        vel0city 2y ago
        I'd say its then more YMMV rather than a blanket "does not live up to the promises". I can routinely go around most of the metro area on any given day and get hundreds of megabits of throughput back home at <10ms latency on a plan that's costing me ~$30/mo on a device that cost less than $400. I can be in a crowded sports arena and on my regular cellular internet and still manage to pull >50Mbit down despite the crowd. Several years ago, I'd be lucky to even get SMS/MMS out quickly and reliably.
        rsynnott 2y ago
        It's going to depend a _lot_ on your telco and region.
    - secondcoming 2y ago
      You're getting bad 5G. I use 5G for home internet. It's perfect except for pings.
  - throw0101c 2y ago
    > I have just never had need of any significant internet speed on my phone. I don't download things, and only sometimes stream video. But other people do. And the main resource that is limited with cell service is air time: there are only so many frequencies, and only so many people can send/receive at the same time. So if someone wants to watch a video video, and a particular segment is (say) 100M, then if a device can do 100M/s, it will take 1s to do that operation: that's a time period when other people may not be able to do anything. But if the device can do 500M/s, then that segment can come down in 0.2s, which means there's now 0.8s worth of time for other people to do other things. You're not going to see any difference if you're watching the video (or streaming music, or check mail), but collectively everyone can get their 'share' of the resource much more quickly. Faster speeds allow better resource utilization because devices can get on and off the air in a shorter amount of time.
    - Marsymars 2y ago
      You'd figure that would incentivize cell operators not to market segment higher speeds behind higher prices. It's like I'm paying them extra for the privilege of increasing their network efficiency.
      - throw0101c 2y ago
        4G (AIUI) uses different frequencies, is a sunk cost, and 5G needs new gear, so someone has to pay for upgrades and the 5G frequency auctions.
        vel0city 2y ago
        4G and 5G can use the same frequencies, but they don't coexist on the same frequencies like the different revisions of WiFi can. 5G can also operate on additional higher frequencies than regular 4G deployments. But often a lot of 5G you see deployed are in the same 700-1900MHz-ish kind of range.
  - agumonkey 2y ago
    In a similar manner, I got 5G recently and used it as my main link, and i'm still at 150GB downloaded (multiple persons, multiple laptops, regular OS updates, docker pull etc). I'm not even smart about this .. Without constant 4K streaming I realized that my needs will rarely exceed 200GB.
  - secondcoming 2y ago
    5G allowed me to avoid having to get fibre.
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  Let's say that 5G is 10x faster than 4G. Why do you need faster than 65MBit download speed on a mobile phone?
- adrr 2y ago
  What provider? I have yet to get over 300Mb/sec on either TMobile or Verizon. Tmobile is suppose to have the fastest speeds according to reports.
Lammy 2y ago
It spies on you a lot more effectively :) https://www.fastcompany.com/90314058/5g-means-youll-have-to-say-goodbye-to-your-location-privacy https://www.fastcompany.com/90314058/5g-means-youll-have-to-... https://venturebeat.com/mobile/sk-telecom-will-use-5g-to-build-centimeter-level-accurate-city-maps/ https://venturebeat.com/mobile/sk-telecom-will-use-5g-to-bui... https://www.ericsson.com/en/blog/2020/12/5g-positioning--what-you-need-to-know https://www.ericsson.com/en/blog/2020/12/5g-positioning--wha...
- atian 2y ago
  Yeah…
- johnwayne666 2y ago
  The UE could decide not to participate: https://www.androidauthority.com/android-15-location-privacy-3429574/ https://www.androidauthority.com/android-15-location-privacy...
  - Lammy 2y ago
    That's completely a false sense of security with 5G systems, because the way it achieves that high bandwidth is by literally “steering the beam” to follow you, i.e. precise location surveillance is an implicit part of using it: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2301.13390 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2301.13390 “The initial access period includes the transmission of beamformed SSBs that provide the UEs with a basic synchronization signal and demodulation reference signals. This allows for UEs to save power by going inactive and rejoining the network at a later initial access period. At the physical layer, the UE will receive the SSBs from a single antenna or using one or more spatial filters, such as a multi-panel handset used to overcome hand blockage. The UE will use the received SSB for synchronization and determining the control information. The beam reporting stage includes one or more possible SSB CSI reports which are transmitted in the random access channel. The report includes information for the strongest serving cell and may include a set of the next strongest cells within the same band to assist with load balancing. The number of reported additional cells depends on the carrier frequency, the previous state of the UE in the net- work, and the bands being monitored. In a newly-active state, the UE reports the top 6–16 additional cells across each active frequency range. This reporting helps to manage handover and mitigate cell-edge interference. In the final steps, the UE has connected to a serving cell and is ready to start receiving data. Further beam refinement and channel estimation can occur by transmitting reference signals with more precise beams. Although not specified in the standard, a typical CSI-RS would cover smaller portions of the reported SSBs’ directions or combine coherently across a multipath channel. Using more directional or precise beams can increase the SNR–thereby improving the channel estimates and beam alignment. Beam refinement can also be used to adjust the beamforming slightly to track highly mobile UEs.” Your linked article even agrees: “Carriers can still see which cell towers your device connects to, use the strength and angle of your device’s signal to the tower, and then look up your device’s unique cellular identifier to determine your general location. Your location may never be private when you’re connected to a cellular network” Fun fact: modern Wi-Fi standards do this too and it's possible to use the backscattered emissions to see through your walls lol https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/security/a42575068/scientists-use-wifi-to-see-through-walls/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/security/a425750...
jowea 2y ago
Does using the internet use less battery?

dclowd9901 2y ago

I've found 1-bar 4G LTE to actually be enough to do work on at home, to my surprise (in the occasions that my in-the-ground cable connection up and dies on me). Only thing I don't get is Zoom with that, but it's nice to have a good excuse not to be in a meeting.

readthenotes1 2y ago
Well, I believe you can try audio only to reduce the bandwidth requirements. That was my excuse for anything below five bars...

fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago

What's any of that have to do with 5G? On 2 bars of 5G right now and I get 650Mbit download speed, it's significantly faster than 4G.

James_K 2y ago
The last bit is just stuff I wanted to whine about. I obviously know it is faster, you don't need to explain that concept. I have just never had need of any significant internet speed on my phone. I don't download things, and only sometimes stream video. Most of the time I am just checking emails, or calendars, or something trivial like that. Unless I do some kind of benchmark, I can't notice the difference between 4G and 5G.
- jfengel 2y ago
  It would matter more if you were in a crowded place, with more users taking up the spectrum. But yeah, as with computer speed, ordinary applications maxed out a while back.
  - readthenotes1 2y ago
    That's a very interesting observation - - the bandwidth requirement is more for the transmitter than the receiver as we get more and more connected devices
- dylan604 2y ago
  If 5G lived up to everything it was touted to do, you could use a 5G hotspot for your home internet would could be a huge positive in areas that only have one ISP available. However, 5G does not live up to the promises, and your traffic is much more heavily shaped than non-wireless ISPs.
  - vel0city 2y ago
    I know many households which use 5G hotspots for home internet. They even do cloud-rendered gaming and remote telework on such setups. Consistently get several hundred megabits at pretty decent latency and jitter. I'd say that lives up to many promises.
    - dylan604 2y ago
      And I know just as many that have tried but get crap service, so we're even now? I barely get regular cell service in my house from my provider. There's no way I'd get a hotspot for a service that is a must have. Provider's "coverage" maps are such a joke to make them useless.
      - vel0city 2y ago
        I'd say its then more YMMV rather than a blanket "does not live up to the promises". I can routinely go around most of the metro area on any given day and get hundreds of megabits of throughput back home at <10ms latency on a plan that's costing me ~$30/mo on a device that cost less than $400. I can be in a crowded sports arena and on my regular cellular internet and still manage to pull >50Mbit down despite the crowd. Several years ago, I'd be lucky to even get SMS/MMS out quickly and reliably.
      - rsynnott 2y ago
        It's going to depend a _lot_ on your telco and region.
  - secondcoming 2y ago
    You're getting bad 5G. I use 5G for home internet. It's perfect except for pings.
- throw0101c 2y ago
  > I have just never had need of any significant internet speed on my phone. I don't download things, and only sometimes stream video. But other people do. And the main resource that is limited with cell service is air time: there are only so many frequencies, and only so many people can send/receive at the same time. So if someone wants to watch a video video, and a particular segment is (say) 100M, then if a device can do 100M/s, it will take 1s to do that operation: that's a time period when other people may not be able to do anything. But if the device can do 500M/s, then that segment can come down in 0.2s, which means there's now 0.8s worth of time for other people to do other things. You're not going to see any difference if you're watching the video (or streaming music, or check mail), but collectively everyone can get their 'share' of the resource much more quickly. Faster speeds allow better resource utilization because devices can get on and off the air in a shorter amount of time.
  - Marsymars 2y ago
    You'd figure that would incentivize cell operators not to market segment higher speeds behind higher prices. It's like I'm paying them extra for the privilege of increasing their network efficiency.
    - throw0101c 2y ago
      4G (AIUI) uses different frequencies, is a sunk cost, and 5G needs new gear, so someone has to pay for upgrades and the 5G frequency auctions.
      - vel0city 2y ago
        4G and 5G can use the same frequencies, but they don't coexist on the same frequencies like the different revisions of WiFi can. 5G can also operate on additional higher frequencies than regular 4G deployments. But often a lot of 5G you see deployed are in the same 700-1900MHz-ish kind of range.
- agumonkey 2y ago
  In a similar manner, I got 5G recently and used it as my main link, and i'm still at 150GB downloaded (multiple persons, multiple laptops, regular OS updates, docker pull etc). I'm not even smart about this .. Without constant 4K streaming I realized that my needs will rarely exceed 200GB.
- secondcoming 2y ago
  5G allowed me to avoid having to get fibre.
throwaway2037 2y ago
Let's say that 5G is 10x faster than 4G. Why do you need faster than 65MBit download speed on a mobile phone?
adrr 2y ago
What provider? I have yet to get over 300Mb/sec on either TMobile or Verizon. Tmobile is suppose to have the fastest speeds according to reports.

Lammy 2y ago

It spies on you a lot more effectively :) https://www.fastcompany.com/90314058/5g-means-youll-have-to-say-goodbye-to-your-location-privacy https://www.fastcompany.com/90314058/5g-means-youll-have-to-... https://venturebeat.com/mobile/sk-telecom-will-use-5g-to-build-centimeter-level-accurate-city-maps/ https://venturebeat.com/mobile/sk-telecom-will-use-5g-to-bui... https://www.ericsson.com/en/blog/2020/12/5g-positioning--what-you-need-to-know https://www.ericsson.com/en/blog/2020/12/5g-positioning--wha...

atian 2y ago
Yeah…
johnwayne666 2y ago
The UE could decide not to participate: https://www.androidauthority.com/android-15-location-privacy-3429574/ https://www.androidauthority.com/android-15-location-privacy...
- Lammy 2y ago
  That's completely a false sense of security with 5G systems, because the way it achieves that high bandwidth is by literally “steering the beam” to follow you, i.e. precise location surveillance is an implicit part of using it: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2301.13390 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2301.13390 “The initial access period includes the transmission of beamformed SSBs that provide the UEs with a basic synchronization signal and demodulation reference signals. This allows for UEs to save power by going inactive and rejoining the network at a later initial access period. At the physical layer, the UE will receive the SSBs from a single antenna or using one or more spatial filters, such as a multi-panel handset used to overcome hand blockage. The UE will use the received SSB for synchronization and determining the control information. The beam reporting stage includes one or more possible SSB CSI reports which are transmitted in the random access channel. The report includes information for the strongest serving cell and may include a set of the next strongest cells within the same band to assist with load balancing. The number of reported additional cells depends on the carrier frequency, the previous state of the UE in the net- work, and the bands being monitored. In a newly-active state, the UE reports the top 6–16 additional cells across each active frequency range. This reporting helps to manage handover and mitigate cell-edge interference. In the final steps, the UE has connected to a serving cell and is ready to start receiving data. Further beam refinement and channel estimation can occur by transmitting reference signals with more precise beams. Although not specified in the standard, a typical CSI-RS would cover smaller portions of the reported SSBs’ directions or combine coherently across a multipath channel. Using more directional or precise beams can increase the SNR–thereby improving the channel estimates and beam alignment. Beam refinement can also be used to adjust the beamforming slightly to track highly mobile UEs.” Your linked article even agrees: “Carriers can still see which cell towers your device connects to, use the strength and angle of your device’s signal to the tower, and then look up your device’s unique cellular identifier to determine your general location. Your location may never be private when you’re connected to a cellular network” Fun fact: modern Wi-Fi standards do this too and it's possible to use the backscattered emissions to see through your walls lol https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/security/a42575068/scientists-use-wifi-to-see-through-walls/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/security/a425750...

jowea 2y ago

Does using the internet use less battery?