7 ms·

Tesla is going down the drain, at least in Europe, unless shareholders evict Musk. Nothing iPhone-like with that brand anymore.

by mongol 2y ago

user3939382 2y ago
This sounds like political venting more than a financial analysis.
- margalabargala 2y ago
  The parent specified in Europe. It's a fact that in January 2025, European Tesla sales have had significant YoY declines, attributed to Musk's political activity. A greater than 50% drop in sales in France and Germany, for example. Here are a couple sources. https://www.ft.com/content/ea2329e4-b4bc-4e2d-be34-e9a8ea31129c https://www.ft.com/content/ea2329e4-b4bc-4e2d-be34-e9a8ea311... https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/05/business/tesla-germany-elon-musk.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/05/business/tesla-germany-el...
  - b112 2y ago
    I cannot read the FT article, but the nyt article says sales have halved, and are now under 2k per month in Germany. So it sounds like their sakes were tiny before this halving. And with numbers that low, one ad campaign or new model by VW could change them. His donations to parties in Germany seems like a weird reason why. He's done all sorts of things in the past, and sales went up.
- mongol 2y ago
  "Tesla’s sales plummet across Europe" Financial Times January 2025 https://www.ft.com/content/ea2329e4-b4bc-4e2d-be34-e9a8ea31129c https://www.ft.com/content/ea2329e4-b4bc-4e2d-be34-e9a8ea311...
hanszarkov 2y ago
Tesla makes great products.
- heyjamesknight 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - mperham 2y ago
    The quality doesn't matter if consumers aren't willing to step into the showroom. YoY sales are cratering, down 50% (!!!) in Europe. That's catastrophic for a "quality product".
    - heyjamesknight 2y ago
      Which is fine, but that's a totally different argument than the idea that they're "bad cars". Like I said, Elon's viability as leader is absolutely up for question. But that has nothing to do with the quality of the vehicle.
  - AlotOfReading 2y ago
    It's wild how different experiences can be. I've had some shitboxes in my day. One car had an air intake that would fall off, so you'd occasionally have to keep the RPMs above 2k or it would stall. One car was a 1970s Russian van held together with duct tape and prayers. The door fell off while driving one day, so I wired it back on with roadside scrap and kept going. The newish old model 3 I had for a few weeks during a backordered warranty repair was worse than either of them. The charging cable would get stuck. Sometimes the doors wouldn't open and I'd have to reboot the car. The headliner glue failed and dumped the roof on my head. You couldn't see through the rear window if it was raining too hard. Sentry mode would take 8-10% of the battery overnight. Many features simply didn't work without the cellular plan.
    - WillPostForFood 2y ago
      You couldn't see through the rear window if it was raining too hard. You think there was a glass defect? or was it just wet?
      - 2y ago
rapsey 2y ago
[flagged]
- Tagbert 2y ago
  that has changed drastically recently. Big drops in sales in EU.
  - rapsey 2y ago
    And have other EV makers seen more success or have they all had declines?
    - nl 2y ago
      > And have other EV makers seen more success or have they all had declines? Others have seen big increases. > Tesla almost 60% fewer cars in Germany in January than in the year-earlier period... The overall segment of battery-electric vehicles, where Tesla is competing, however, gained popularity in January, with sales up 53.5% at almost 34,500 vehicles across all brands. > A total of 405 new Teslas were registered in Sweden last month, down 44% from January 2024, while registrations in Norway fell to 689, a decline of 38% over the same period, despite soaring overall demand for cars in the two countries. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-sees-german-car-sales-plunge-january-2025-02-05/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-... I tried to find individual manufacturer numbers but couldn't. I did find this: > Global sales of fully electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids (PHEV) rose 17.7% year on year to 1.3 million in January, the third consecutive month of slowing growth, the Rho Motion data showed. > Europe reported sales of 0.25 million, up 21% from the same month of 2024. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/global-electric-vehicle-sales-up-18-january-2025-02-12/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/global...
  - r00fus 2y ago
    Other EV manufacturers are essentially picking up the lost sales and the EV market as a whole is up marginally. https://evmagazine.com/news/teslas-european-decline-musks-ev-giant-faces-struggles https://evmagazine.com/news/teslas-european-decline-musks-ev...
r00fus 2y ago
Not just Europe: CA sales are down double digits recently as well: https://www.newsweek.com/tesla-california-sales-decline-electric-vehicles-2027745#:~:text=What%20To%20Know,Tesla%20in%20the%20Golden%20State. https://www.newsweek.com/tesla-california-sales-decline-elec...
- jszymborski 2y ago
  Doing poorly in the other CA (Canada) as well https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tesla-sales-drop-1.7421653 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tesla-sales-drop-1.7421653
spacebanana7 2y ago
Out of curiosity, do you know anyone on the political right who feels that way? It's quite possible to win a market with 30-50% of people liking you. Any if right wing customers buy Teslas for political reasons rather than utility they could reduce quality and increase pricing do even better financially.
- creaturemachine 2y ago
  Right-wing customers in an EV? Tell us another one.
- Vrondi 2y ago
  The fascinating thing is that the political right largely prefers ICE vehicles in the USA. This is a combination of factors, like more rural voters who need more range/work more blue collar jobs/haul firewood/etc. Combined with a personality type that is more cautious about change. And also, the insane prices for things like Teslas here. Perhaps Musk's close association with President Trump will gain him a small number of new rich fans on the political right, but most common Americans in most of the country aren't even considering a Tesla to begin with, and it's the majority of folks with lower incomes that put Trump back in office this time.
- mongol 2y ago
  The political right in Europe is not the same as the political right in the US. I am myself on the right side of the political spectrum and I despise Trump and more recently Musk. You can probably still find people that don't care, but they are going to be far, far fewer than 30%. Owning a Tesla has become something people apologise for.

Tesla is going down the drain, at least in Europe, unless shareholders evict Musk. Nothing iPhone-like with that brand anymore.

by mongol 2y ago

Tesla is going down the drain, at least in Europe, unless shareholders evict Musk. Nothing iPhone-like with that brand anymore.

user3939382 2y ago

This sounds like political venting more than a financial analysis.

margalabargala 2y ago
The parent specified in Europe. It's a fact that in January 2025, European Tesla sales have had significant YoY declines, attributed to Musk's political activity. A greater than 50% drop in sales in France and Germany, for example. Here are a couple sources. https://www.ft.com/content/ea2329e4-b4bc-4e2d-be34-e9a8ea31129c https://www.ft.com/content/ea2329e4-b4bc-4e2d-be34-e9a8ea311... https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/05/business/tesla-germany-elon-musk.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/05/business/tesla-germany-el...
- b112 2y ago
  I cannot read the FT article, but the nyt article says sales have halved, and are now under 2k per month in Germany. So it sounds like their sakes were tiny before this halving. And with numbers that low, one ad campaign or new model by VW could change them. His donations to parties in Germany seems like a weird reason why. He's done all sorts of things in the past, and sales went up.
mongol 2y ago
"Tesla’s sales plummet across Europe" Financial Times January 2025 https://www.ft.com/content/ea2329e4-b4bc-4e2d-be34-e9a8ea31129c https://www.ft.com/content/ea2329e4-b4bc-4e2d-be34-e9a8ea311...

hanszarkov 2y ago

Tesla makes great products.

heyjamesknight 2y ago
[flagged]
- mperham 2y ago
  The quality doesn't matter if consumers aren't willing to step into the showroom. YoY sales are cratering, down 50% (!!!) in Europe. That's catastrophic for a "quality product".
  - heyjamesknight 2y ago
    Which is fine, but that's a totally different argument than the idea that they're "bad cars". Like I said, Elon's viability as leader is absolutely up for question. But that has nothing to do with the quality of the vehicle.
- AlotOfReading 2y ago
  It's wild how different experiences can be. I've had some shitboxes in my day. One car had an air intake that would fall off, so you'd occasionally have to keep the RPMs above 2k or it would stall. One car was a 1970s Russian van held together with duct tape and prayers. The door fell off while driving one day, so I wired it back on with roadside scrap and kept going. The newish old model 3 I had for a few weeks during a backordered warranty repair was worse than either of them. The charging cable would get stuck. Sometimes the doors wouldn't open and I'd have to reboot the car. The headliner glue failed and dumped the roof on my head. You couldn't see through the rear window if it was raining too hard. Sentry mode would take 8-10% of the battery overnight. Many features simply didn't work without the cellular plan.
  - WillPostForFood 2y ago
    You couldn't see through the rear window if it was raining too hard. You think there was a glass defect? or was it just wet?
    - 2y ago

rapsey 2y ago

[flagged]

Tagbert 2y ago
that has changed drastically recently. Big drops in sales in EU.
- rapsey 2y ago
  And have other EV makers seen more success or have they all had declines?
  - nl 2y ago
    > And have other EV makers seen more success or have they all had declines? Others have seen big increases. > Tesla almost 60% fewer cars in Germany in January than in the year-earlier period... The overall segment of battery-electric vehicles, where Tesla is competing, however, gained popularity in January, with sales up 53.5% at almost 34,500 vehicles across all brands. > A total of 405 new Teslas were registered in Sweden last month, down 44% from January 2024, while registrations in Norway fell to 689, a decline of 38% over the same period, despite soaring overall demand for cars in the two countries. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-sees-german-car-sales-plunge-january-2025-02-05/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-... I tried to find individual manufacturer numbers but couldn't. I did find this: > Global sales of fully electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids (PHEV) rose 17.7% year on year to 1.3 million in January, the third consecutive month of slowing growth, the Rho Motion data showed. > Europe reported sales of 0.25 million, up 21% from the same month of 2024. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/global-electric-vehicle-sales-up-18-january-2025-02-12/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/global...
- r00fus 2y ago
  Other EV manufacturers are essentially picking up the lost sales and the EV market as a whole is up marginally. https://evmagazine.com/news/teslas-european-decline-musks-ev-giant-faces-struggles https://evmagazine.com/news/teslas-european-decline-musks-ev...

r00fus 2y ago

Not just Europe: CA sales are down double digits recently as well: https://www.newsweek.com/tesla-california-sales-decline-electric-vehicles-2027745#:~:text=What%20To%20Know,Tesla%20in%20the%20Golden%20State. https://www.newsweek.com/tesla-california-sales-decline-elec...

jszymborski 2y ago
Doing poorly in the other CA (Canada) as well https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tesla-sales-drop-1.7421653 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tesla-sales-drop-1.7421653

spacebanana7 2y ago

Out of curiosity, do you know anyone on the political right who feels that way? It's quite possible to win a market with 30-50% of people liking you. Any if right wing customers buy Teslas for political reasons rather than utility they could reduce quality and increase pricing do even better financially.

creaturemachine 2y ago
Right-wing customers in an EV? Tell us another one.
Vrondi 2y ago
The fascinating thing is that the political right largely prefers ICE vehicles in the USA. This is a combination of factors, like more rural voters who need more range/work more blue collar jobs/haul firewood/etc. Combined with a personality type that is more cautious about change. And also, the insane prices for things like Teslas here. Perhaps Musk's close association with President Trump will gain him a small number of new rich fans on the political right, but most common Americans in most of the country aren't even considering a Tesla to begin with, and it's the majority of folks with lower incomes that put Trump back in office this time.
mongol 2y ago
The political right in Europe is not the same as the political right in the US. I am myself on the right side of the political spectrum and I despise Trump and more recently Musk. You can probably still find people that don't care, but they are going to be far, far fewer than 30%. Owning a Tesla has become something people apologise for.