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Oregon has a severe housing shortage: https://www.opb.org/article/2025/01/28/oregon-needs-to-build-29500-more-homes-each-year-chief-economist-says/ https://www

by davidw 2y ago

Oregon has a severe housing shortage: https://www.opb.org/article/2025/01/28/oregon-needs-to-build-29500-more-homes-each-year-chief-economist-says/ https://www.opb.org/article/2025/01/28/oregon-needs-to-build... That is the root cause of homelessness: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/everything-you-think-you-know-about https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/everything-you-think-you-know-... This video also does a good job of explaining it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQW4W1_SJmc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQW4W1_SJmc Eliminating costly parking regulations are quite helpful for building the kinds of housing that will help people get out of homelessness.

cyberax 2y ago
[flagged]
- davidw 2y ago
  This is clearly why people pay less for housing in locales like New York or San Francisco with very efficient land use than, say, rural Oklahoma.
  - Ajedi32 2y ago
    San Fransisco housing is cheaper than rural Oklahoma? Source, please. San Francisco is notorious for being an extremely expensive place to live. In my experience, housing outside cities (suburbs or rural areas) is usually much, much cheaper per square foot than housing in metro areas.
    - jerlam 2y ago
      This is obviously sarcasm.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - davidw 2y ago
      As the other poster notes, I was being sarcastic. People pay a ton of money to live in denser cities like NY, London and Paris.
      - Ajedi32 2y ago
        But in that case that's already what the comment you were replying to was saying: that higher density results in higher costs. So I guess I'm confused about what your point is. Were you just trying to say you agree?
        davidw 2y ago
        The high costs are because an area is desirable, not because it's dense. Density is how you do something to mitigate the high costs of a place like NYC. Imagine if you chopped off the upper half of all buildings there, what prices would do! You could build a bunch of dense housing in Burns, Oregon and you wouldn't be able to charge much for rent there!
        c22 2y ago
        It's a bit of a chicken and egg thing because the density is a huge component of the desireability.
- xvedejas 2y ago
  This is entirely untrue. You are responding to a poster who has provided high-quality sources by just saying "nuh-uh".
- CPLX 2y ago
  Assuming you don’t believe in forced sterilization there is actually no public policy way to reduce density. It’s just a mathematical fact. More people means on average the population density increases. Since all solutions involve increasing density somewhere the argument actually reduces to the question of where. Assuming you think Oregon, specifically, should be less dense or remain the same, then you are necessarily an advocate for increased density somewhere else. So maybe tell us where?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - cyberax 2y ago
    > Assuming you don’t believe in forced sterilization there is actually no public policy way to reduce density. There is. Restrict the dense office space, by cap-and-trading it. Like we did with sulfur emissions. Also, "forced sterilization"? WTF are you talking about?!? The US population is likely peaking within the next decade and the peak population will likely be 5-7% more than the current level.
    - CPLX 2y ago
      Indeed. When the US population is 7% higher the country will be 7% more population dense. As mentioned this is a mathematical certainty. Since all outcomes have higher average density, anyone who argues against density has some further explaining to do.
      - cyberax 2y ago
        The average US population density is 4 people per square kilometer.
        CPLX 2y ago
        Correct. And when we have more of them, the density will increase. The argument is not about higher or lower density. The answer to that question is higher. The argument is about where these people will live
- hooverd 2y ago
  How does down zoning lower housing costs? I'm having trouble wrapping my head around it.
  - cyberax 2y ago
    By forcing companies to expand away from dense city cores. Ideally into smaller cities.
nayuki 2y ago
Thanks for introducing me to Justine Underhill ( https://www.youtube.com/@justine-underhill https://www.youtube.com/@justine-underhill ). She is a new YouTuber (4 videos so far) with excellent urbanist content! Her well-argued essays remind me of Oh The Urbanity!, Not Just Bikes, and About Here.

by davidw 2y ago

cyberax 2y ago

[flagged]

davidw 2y ago
This is clearly why people pay less for housing in locales like New York or San Francisco with very efficient land use than, say, rural Oklahoma.
- Ajedi32 2y ago
  San Fransisco housing is cheaper than rural Oklahoma? Source, please. San Francisco is notorious for being an extremely expensive place to live. In my experience, housing outside cities (suburbs or rural areas) is usually much, much cheaper per square foot than housing in metro areas.
  - jerlam 2y ago
    This is obviously sarcasm.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - davidw 2y ago
    As the other poster notes, I was being sarcastic. People pay a ton of money to live in denser cities like NY, London and Paris.
    - Ajedi32 2y ago
      But in that case that's already what the comment you were replying to was saying: that higher density results in higher costs. So I guess I'm confused about what your point is. Were you just trying to say you agree?
      - davidw 2y ago
        The high costs are because an area is desirable, not because it's dense. Density is how you do something to mitigate the high costs of a place like NYC. Imagine if you chopped off the upper half of all buildings there, what prices would do! You could build a bunch of dense housing in Burns, Oregon and you wouldn't be able to charge much for rent there!
        c22 2y ago
        It's a bit of a chicken and egg thing because the density is a huge component of the desireability.
xvedejas 2y ago
This is entirely untrue. You are responding to a poster who has provided high-quality sources by just saying "nuh-uh".
CPLX 2y ago
Assuming you don’t believe in forced sterilization there is actually no public policy way to reduce density. It’s just a mathematical fact. More people means on average the population density increases. Since all solutions involve increasing density somewhere the argument actually reduces to the question of where. Assuming you think Oregon, specifically, should be less dense or remain the same, then you are necessarily an advocate for increased density somewhere else. So maybe tell us where?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- cyberax 2y ago
  > Assuming you don’t believe in forced sterilization there is actually no public policy way to reduce density. There is. Restrict the dense office space, by cap-and-trading it. Like we did with sulfur emissions. Also, "forced sterilization"? WTF are you talking about?!? The US population is likely peaking within the next decade and the peak population will likely be 5-7% more than the current level.
  - CPLX 2y ago
    Indeed. When the US population is 7% higher the country will be 7% more population dense. As mentioned this is a mathematical certainty. Since all outcomes have higher average density, anyone who argues against density has some further explaining to do.
    - cyberax 2y ago
      The average US population density is 4 people per square kilometer.
      - CPLX 2y ago
        Correct. And when we have more of them, the density will increase. The argument is not about higher or lower density. The answer to that question is higher. The argument is about where these people will live
hooverd 2y ago
How does down zoning lower housing costs? I'm having trouble wrapping my head around it.
- cyberax 2y ago
  By forcing companies to expand away from dense city cores. Ideally into smaller cities.

nayuki 2y ago

Thanks for introducing me to Justine Underhill ( https://www.youtube.com/@justine-underhill https://www.youtube.com/@justine-underhill ). She is a new YouTuber (4 videos so far) with excellent urbanist content! Her well-argued essays remind me of Oh The Urbanity!, Not Just Bikes, and About Here.