4 ms·

The real problem here in most of Europe is that if you allow same sex marriage, you give the couple all the rights of a married couple. These rights include ado

by Loic 14y ago

The real problem here in most of Europe is that if you allow same sex marriage, you give the couple all the rights of a married couple. These rights include adoption. This is the main driving force against same sex marriage in most of Europe. Same sex couples adopting is a very sensitive issue, I am lucky to have friends who adopted (in Germany we have less than 10 men couples having adopted), the boy is now a bit less than 2 year old and I am still wondering if this is a good thing or not. This is why I completely understand that the general population can react strongly as even me, being able to play on the floor with the little boy, being a rational kind of person and seeing the little boy smiling and happy, can still have some doubts.

imgabe 14y ago
Why exactly might it not be a good thing for a child to be raised by a same sex couple?
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- Loic 14y ago
  I personally don't know. From my experience as son and now as father, what I really think is important is to have two parents with different characters and way of thinking. Because a kid will never think like you and react like you, being two with different ways to see the world is helping wonderfully to better understand your kid and help him/her to grow and develop him/herself. Can these differences be found within a same sex couple? Most likely, also not in the same way as woman/man. Is it better 2 loving fathers instead of living alone in an institution, definitely. Non exceptional same sex couples with children is a fundamental change in the society, we need to accept that it will take time for this change to become accepted.
ralfn 14y ago
I think all the adoption regulation is completely bullshit, and likely against every nations constitution. Every one is allowed to have a baby. But, oh dear, if somebody wants to take care of a kid that has no parents. Personally, i dont think religious people are fit parents. Should i now campaign against religious people taking care of children? Or maybe, just maybe, people should just give the freedom to others they expect for themselves. I have no moral authority over any one, nor does any one have a moral authority over me. Why is it that fascism is allowed to flourish, as long as the fascists call it a religion. And how is that fair towards the 1% of religious folk that are actually religious? ( actually religious == using religion to guide your own lifechoices, instead of using it judge/oppress others and play god)
- slurgfest 14y ago
  The problem is that once the child is in the hands of the state, whatever happens to the child is the responsibility of the state. If the child suffers any problem which normally occurs, the state is now magically responsible. For example, if the child was adopted by an abusive alcoholic then this is a case of the terrible neglect and perfidy of the state... even though gobs of people are naturally born to abusive alcoholics and taking them away would usually be regarded as an instance of the terrible neglect and perfidy of the evil, bureaucratic state. The state must have a perfect track record in order to be merely tolerated. Otherwise, it will be overthrown. So by our own stupid irrationality, we ensure that the state is irrationally defensive. If the state could solve a problem 90%, but 10% are still left over, that 10% becomes the awful perfidy of the state, so we create an environment where the other 90% are completely ignored because at least it's "nobody's fault."
ender7 14y ago
Same-sex couples can already adopt children in the US, they just can't adopt them together. Technically, only one member of the couple gets to be the legal "parent". The kid will still grow up in a same-sex household. He/she will still think of themselves has having two dads or two moms. The only thing you're denying is the ability for the other partner to sign their permission forms, visit them in the hospital, or be officially recognized as a parent by the government and society.
- Loic 14y ago
  Basically the same problem in Germany. The kid is officially adopted by only one father even so they are recognized as same sex couple by the authorities (in fact the biological mother had to agree that the kid would be adopted by a same sex couple as she left her son for adoption deliberately). This means that the kid get less protection than a normal kid in a family in case of death of the "official in the papers" father. It will take time for the rules of the society to adapt to the changes in the society.
ifmw 14y ago
You say that same sex couples adopting is a very sensitive issue, but the lack of full civil marriage between same sex couples impacts on the kids of all the existing partnerships. I have a friend who was raised by a same-sex couple. One was a biological parent, and they had to go through huge complex legal procedures to compensate for inheritance rights, adopting the child and others as he was a stranger-in-law to the non-biological parent that raise him. I have a lesbian friend who has 3 biological kids of her own. The only social issues they've faced are from other adults being uncomfortable with it. But it's a bigger issue when those people vote against civil marriage and deprive those kids of legal protections kids of hetrosexual marriages have.

by Loic 14y ago

imgabe 14y ago

Why exactly might it not be a good thing for a child to be raised by a same sex couple?

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
Loic 14y ago
I personally don't know. From my experience as son and now as father, what I really think is important is to have two parents with different characters and way of thinking. Because a kid will never think like you and react like you, being two with different ways to see the world is helping wonderfully to better understand your kid and help him/her to grow and develop him/herself. Can these differences be found within a same sex couple? Most likely, also not in the same way as woman/man. Is it better 2 loving fathers instead of living alone in an institution, definitely. Non exceptional same sex couples with children is a fundamental change in the society, we need to accept that it will take time for this change to become accepted.

ralfn 14y ago

I think all the adoption regulation is completely bullshit, and likely against every nations constitution. Every one is allowed to have a baby. But, oh dear, if somebody wants to take care of a kid that has no parents. Personally, i dont think religious people are fit parents. Should i now campaign against religious people taking care of children? Or maybe, just maybe, people should just give the freedom to others they expect for themselves. I have no moral authority over any one, nor does any one have a moral authority over me. Why is it that fascism is allowed to flourish, as long as the fascists call it a religion. And how is that fair towards the 1% of religious folk that are actually religious? ( actually religious == using religion to guide your own lifechoices, instead of using it judge/oppress others and play god)

slurgfest 14y ago
The problem is that once the child is in the hands of the state, whatever happens to the child is the responsibility of the state. If the child suffers any problem which normally occurs, the state is now magically responsible. For example, if the child was adopted by an abusive alcoholic then this is a case of the terrible neglect and perfidy of the state... even though gobs of people are naturally born to abusive alcoholics and taking them away would usually be regarded as an instance of the terrible neglect and perfidy of the evil, bureaucratic state. The state must have a perfect track record in order to be merely tolerated. Otherwise, it will be overthrown. So by our own stupid irrationality, we ensure that the state is irrationally defensive. If the state could solve a problem 90%, but 10% are still left over, that 10% becomes the awful perfidy of the state, so we create an environment where the other 90% are completely ignored because at least it's "nobody's fault."

ender7 14y ago

Same-sex couples can already adopt children in the US, they just can't adopt them together. Technically, only one member of the couple gets to be the legal "parent". The kid will still grow up in a same-sex household. He/she will still think of themselves has having two dads or two moms. The only thing you're denying is the ability for the other partner to sign their permission forms, visit them in the hospital, or be officially recognized as a parent by the government and society.

Loic 14y ago
Basically the same problem in Germany. The kid is officially adopted by only one father even so they are recognized as same sex couple by the authorities (in fact the biological mother had to agree that the kid would be adopted by a same sex couple as she left her son for adoption deliberately). This means that the kid get less protection than a normal kid in a family in case of death of the "official in the papers" father. It will take time for the rules of the society to adapt to the changes in the society.

ifmw 14y ago

You say that same sex couples adopting is a very sensitive issue, but the lack of full civil marriage between same sex couples impacts on the kids of all the existing partnerships. I have a friend who was raised by a same-sex couple. One was a biological parent, and they had to go through huge complex legal procedures to compensate for inheritance rights, adopting the child and others as he was a stranger-in-law to the non-biological parent that raise him. I have a lesbian friend who has 3 biological kids of her own. The only social issues they've faced are from other adults being uncomfortable with it. But it's a bigger issue when those people vote against civil marriage and deprive those kids of legal protections kids of hetrosexual marriages have.