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DetSys, once again, building a moat. I really do not like how this approach depends on their seemingly not open source backend. Nix needs tools like this, no q
by _cenw 2y ago
DetSys, once again, building a moat.
I really do not like how this approach depends on their seemingly not open source backend. Nix needs tools like this, no question, but I'd hate to see it get adoption through a way that isn't reproducible by anyone. It looks like it could be a repeat of the Snap store problem - interesting tech, made unusable through de-facto dependencies on proprietary services.
- mongol 2y agoIs it really a moat though? The same flake can still be evaluated without this service, it just takes longer.
- _cenw 2y agoAnd I can still install a snap on an Ubuntu Core machine by building my own distribution method, but it will be a downgrade from the experience of running "snap install something" that introduced me to it. So nobody does. Lix (yes, I will mention it again) essentially exists by a large degree because the overlap between the people that control Nix and DetSys is big, even very big if you look at CppNix.
- mongol 2y agoI don't follow this argument. Unless you chose to step in to DetSys ecosystem with this fh tool or whatever, this has no impact on you at all.
- otabdeveloper4 2y ago> exists by a large degree because the overlap between the people that control Nix and DetSys is big No, it exists because of sexual identity politics. 11 out of 12 of the Lix developer team are transsexuals. Clearly the selection isn't about technical issues.
- _cenw 2y agoWho's doing the identity politics now.
- anonfordays 2y agoClearly the Lix team.
- nothrabannosir 2y agoOk but they’re creating a good product, in their “own” space, not bothering anyone, and they increase competition which benefits the entire ecosystem, so to be frank… who cares? Lix is a net win for everyone. It would behoove us to stop taking pot shots at them because if you want nix to succeed, the presence of Lix is a net positive.
- otabdeveloper4 2y agoNot sure deliberate and obtuse fragmentation benefits anyone. If they started to fix some of the long-standing Nix implementation issues (namely, evaluation performance) that would be one thing. But what they actually did is rage-fork nixpkgs and register new domains.
- anonfordays 2y ago>Ok but they’re creating a good product, Debatable. >in their “own” space, not bothering anyone, and they increase competition which benefits the entire ecosystem, so to be frank… who cares? Sounds like White supremacy and Neo-Nazism. Why not say that about every other project that leftist enter and try to push their religious beliefs? >Lix is a net win for everyone. Most definitely not, fragmentation and religious proselytizing destroys projects. >It would behoove us to stop taking pot shots at them The truth shouldn't be hidden, regardless if they're "pot shots" or not. >want nix to succeed, the presence of Lix is a net positive. The Lix team are the ones that destroyed the nix community with their totalitarianism, leftist/woke ideology, and subversive actions. They are a net negative.
- larusso 2y agoI didn‘t look too deep into Nix the last couple of months (> 12) and was wondering while reading: what the hell is fh now. Another abstraction? I share your views here!
- biggestlou 2y agofh is the CLI tool for FlakeHub. It's been around almost as long as FlakeHub itself. It's pretty standard fare, not really an abstraction per se.
- rounce 2y ago‘Standard’ if you live in the flakehub ecosystem, which the vast majority of Nix users don’t.
- biggestlou 2y agoStandard in the sense of "a non-magical CLI tool that wraps a platform's HTTP API," not standard in the sense of "used by a majority of users."
- biggestlou 2y agoOut of curiosity, do you object to the existence of services like Cachix, Nixbuild, and Garnix, which also do not have open source backends?
- _cenw 2y agoIf their founder was the person with principal control over what goes into CppNix, yes.
- biggestlou 2y agoIs there a Nix-based company co-founded by Eelco Dolstra to which you wouldn't object?
- _cenw 2y agoSure, but you seem to sidestep the primary accusation that Nix itself got neglected in favor of DetSys. Which is most certainly true for at least the installer.
- biggestlou 2y agoThe expectation seems to be that Eelco work on Nix full time for free lest he be accused of neglect. Is there a way for Eelco to make money that you would approve of?
- _cenw 2y agoI would've replied to you but HN's intransparent timeout mechanism hit me. I'd invite everyone to wonder why Lix exists (and is better enough to be used in some parts of Nix's CI now), why CppNix stable was stuck 6 versions behind on nixpkgs until half a year ago, and what kept Lix contributors from working on CppNix instead. Tip: "I want free labor from Eelco" is not the answer.
- justinrubek 2y agoNobody said this. I suggest that you not escalate the discussion in this direction. You're obviously biased given involvement with detsys, nobody expects you to think differently. This crass dismissal off the issue with a strawman isn't right.
- anonfordays 2y agoThey're not building a moat, they were excommunicated and banished. Zealots hate to see heretics living successful lives. More power to them.
- _cenw 2y agoI think you may be mixing up some things. Anyway, where's this sudden influx of traffic coming from?
- anonfordays 2y ago>I think you may be mixing up some things. I don't think so. >Anyway, where's this sudden influx of traffic coming from? What traffic?
- weitzj 2y agoLove what they are doing. At least you get the chance to introduce Nix in the enterprise with the MacOS installer, having figured out private CAs and the MacOS keychain for example. Then MDM.