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The UK is also sending eye-watering amounts of money to Ukraine without a problem, while everyone else is pulling out of the project. There was also the plan g

by voidr 2y ago

The UK is also sending eye-watering amounts of money to Ukraine without a problem, while everyone else is pulling out of the project. There was also the plan go give the Chagos islands to a country that is ~2000km away and pay them billions for the privilege of using them. There is always money to chase newspaper headlines.

freefaler 2y ago
Many very costly things could happen if you forget the Munich lesson. It's easier to stop Putin there than to let him have it and spend 10x on the next war.
- voidr 2y ago
  Many very costly things happen if we forget the Afghanistan lesson, where an insane amount money was plowed into a military riddled with corruption that folded without a fight once the US abandoned the area. On paper the Afghan forces were more numerous and better equipped, in reality most of those soldiers collected their pay checks and went home.
  - spwa4 2y ago
    Ukraine's army and soldiers have done everything, above and beyond what could be expected of them, and none "collected their pay checks and went home".
    - voidr 2y ago
      Well except that 200 000+ who did not feel like sacrificing themselves for a media stunt like Kursk or Krynky and decided to desert. Zelensky doesn't know where at least 100bn went, that's over half the amount they were given by the US, we didn't even ask about the EU funds. You can also look at a map and see that we are giving them money and they are losing ground, it's not working.
      - spwa4 2y ago
        But where do you get this info? This is bullshit. There are no 200k desertions, not even half that, even in the worst estimates. And because of immigration numbers in Europe ALONE we know for sure there are 1m desertions in Russia, from just the Russians that register as refugees in Europe. There were 100+km traffic jams JUST FROM DESERTERS LEAVING RUSSIA. Let's assume at least double that are in other destinations. That's 15 Russian desertions per Ukrainian if we take your numbers, something like 35 Russians deserting per Ukrainian if we take realistic numbers. I'm fucking trying to hire a Russian deserter. Interviewed him, currently trying to arrange a permit, getting info on what would be involved. For what a shit country it is Russians can be damn well educated, and obviously, are currently available for hire (with caveats of course) in Europe ... frankly at bargain prices even for Europe. There's a, now pretty famous, Russian deserter that was part of Putin's IT team [1]. There's a famous Russian deserter from the Nuclear weapons team [2]. There's desertions of Kremlin insiders [3]. As for the losing ground ... everyone was sure Russia was going to beat the Ukrainian army and government in 3 days. Then it was definitely not going to take 2 weeks, and now Russia's entire army is in shambles, Ukraine is executing areal attacks against Russian fucking air defence with Cessna "rockets", and that works! There's reports, with video of Russia's army having entirely run out of equipment, using golf carts as armored vehicles. And yes, Ukraine works by the general tactic of retreating 100 meters leaving a trap, having Russia sacrifice WAY too much dealing with the trap, retreating another 100 meters. As for the money, aside from the amount quoted being bullshit, the 150 billion dollars that US + EU loaned combined in trade for destroying the Russian army? That's cheap. In fact those amounts are loans, being spent largely in the US, to be repaid by the Ukrainian government. 70% or so is a direct stimulus for the US economy, paid by Ukraine, if they win. It would be cheap even if it was a gift to Ukraine, but it's not. By contrast, just the Russian actions in the Baltic seas, cutting internet cables are estimated to cost 2+ billion. In other words it's not even possible to avoid spending it. And those damages are NOT loans. We will be paying for that, one way or another, out of pocket, nobody will pay anyone back for that. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/05/russian-defector-sheds-light-on-putin-paranoia-including-secret-train https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/05/russian-defect... [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9dl2pv0yj0o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9dl2pv0yj0o [3] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/23/putin-adviser-anatoly-chubais-quits-leaves-russia-invasion-ukraine https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/23/putin-adviser-...
r00fus 2y ago
It makes more sense when you realize that all the money being thrown into Ukraine is likely being funneled out as tax-exempt gains by one billionaire or another who gives kickbacks to the politicians who enable this grift. It's a giant grift, Ukraine has always unfortunately been a very corrupt country that enables such.
- bArray 2y ago
  > It makes more sense when you realize that all the money being thrown into Ukraine is likely being funneled out as tax-exempt gains by one billionaire or another who gives kickbacks to the politicians who enable this grift. The Western governments give Ukraine money, the money gets spent on weapons, the weapons are being bought from the West, Western government officials are stakeholders in weapons company growth & success. Some government officials have a strange habit of multiplying their net work several times whilst in influential positions whilst on a relatively lower salary than would allow such gains.
bArray 2y ago
> The UK is also sending eye-watering amounts of money to Ukraine without a problem, while everyone else is pulling out of the project. The UK government has never been more obviously out of step with the rest of the West. Like it or not, the global stage is currently being driven by signals from Trump. > There was also the plan go give the Chagos islands to a country that is ~2000km away and pay them billions for the privilege of using them. Don't get me started on this. There is quite likely an amount of corruption involved there too.

by voidr 2y ago

freefaler 2y ago

Many very costly things could happen if you forget the Munich lesson. It's easier to stop Putin there than to let him have it and spend 10x on the next war.

voidr 2y ago
Many very costly things happen if we forget the Afghanistan lesson, where an insane amount money was plowed into a military riddled with corruption that folded without a fight once the US abandoned the area. On paper the Afghan forces were more numerous and better equipped, in reality most of those soldiers collected their pay checks and went home.
- spwa4 2y ago
  Ukraine's army and soldiers have done everything, above and beyond what could be expected of them, and none "collected their pay checks and went home".
  - voidr 2y ago
    Well except that 200 000+ who did not feel like sacrificing themselves for a media stunt like Kursk or Krynky and decided to desert. Zelensky doesn't know where at least 100bn went, that's over half the amount they were given by the US, we didn't even ask about the EU funds. You can also look at a map and see that we are giving them money and they are losing ground, it's not working.
    - spwa4 2y ago
      But where do you get this info? This is bullshit. There are no 200k desertions, not even half that, even in the worst estimates. And because of immigration numbers in Europe ALONE we know for sure there are 1m desertions in Russia, from just the Russians that register as refugees in Europe. There were 100+km traffic jams JUST FROM DESERTERS LEAVING RUSSIA. Let's assume at least double that are in other destinations. That's 15 Russian desertions per Ukrainian if we take your numbers, something like 35 Russians deserting per Ukrainian if we take realistic numbers. I'm fucking trying to hire a Russian deserter. Interviewed him, currently trying to arrange a permit, getting info on what would be involved. For what a shit country it is Russians can be damn well educated, and obviously, are currently available for hire (with caveats of course) in Europe ... frankly at bargain prices even for Europe. There's a, now pretty famous, Russian deserter that was part of Putin's IT team [1]. There's a famous Russian deserter from the Nuclear weapons team [2]. There's desertions of Kremlin insiders [3]. As for the losing ground ... everyone was sure Russia was going to beat the Ukrainian army and government in 3 days. Then it was definitely not going to take 2 weeks, and now Russia's entire army is in shambles, Ukraine is executing areal attacks against Russian fucking air defence with Cessna "rockets", and that works! There's reports, with video of Russia's army having entirely run out of equipment, using golf carts as armored vehicles. And yes, Ukraine works by the general tactic of retreating 100 meters leaving a trap, having Russia sacrifice WAY too much dealing with the trap, retreating another 100 meters. As for the money, aside from the amount quoted being bullshit, the 150 billion dollars that US + EU loaned combined in trade for destroying the Russian army? That's cheap. In fact those amounts are loans, being spent largely in the US, to be repaid by the Ukrainian government. 70% or so is a direct stimulus for the US economy, paid by Ukraine, if they win. It would be cheap even if it was a gift to Ukraine, but it's not. By contrast, just the Russian actions in the Baltic seas, cutting internet cables are estimated to cost 2+ billion. In other words it's not even possible to avoid spending it. And those damages are NOT loans. We will be paying for that, one way or another, out of pocket, nobody will pay anyone back for that. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/05/russian-defector-sheds-light-on-putin-paranoia-including-secret-train https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/05/russian-defect... [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9dl2pv0yj0o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9dl2pv0yj0o [3] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/23/putin-adviser-anatoly-chubais-quits-leaves-russia-invasion-ukraine https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/23/putin-adviser-...

r00fus 2y ago

It makes more sense when you realize that all the money being thrown into Ukraine is likely being funneled out as tax-exempt gains by one billionaire or another who gives kickbacks to the politicians who enable this grift. It's a giant grift, Ukraine has always unfortunately been a very corrupt country that enables such.

bArray 2y ago
> It makes more sense when you realize that all the money being thrown into Ukraine is likely being funneled out as tax-exempt gains by one billionaire or another who gives kickbacks to the politicians who enable this grift. The Western governments give Ukraine money, the money gets spent on weapons, the weapons are being bought from the West, Western government officials are stakeholders in weapons company growth & success. Some government officials have a strange habit of multiplying their net work several times whilst in influential positions whilst on a relatively lower salary than would allow such gains.

bArray 2y ago

> The UK is also sending eye-watering amounts of money to Ukraine without a problem, while everyone else is pulling out of the project. The UK government has never been more obviously out of step with the rest of the West. Like it or not, the global stage is currently being driven by signals from Trump. > There was also the plan go give the Chagos islands to a country that is ~2000km away and pay them billions for the privilege of using them. Don't get me started on this. There is quite likely an amount of corruption involved there too.