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EU can always get a discount on that once they ratchet up regulations. I don’t understand Europe, why don’t they just focus on hyper growth with limited oversig

EU can always get a discount on that once they ratchet up regulations. I don’t understand Europe, why don’t they just focus on hyper growth with limited oversight like America?

jycr753 2y ago
I believe it's because they have this massive monster in Brussels that needs something to do (chiringuitos) to extract the maximum amount of money—corruption.
- wafngar 2y ago
  Brussels is quite small. Probably less than Washington.
  - tmnvdb 2y ago
    A lot smaller. The city of Amsterdam employs more bureaucracts than the EU.
tmnvdb 2y ago
There is no European (capital) market and the national markets are too small to compete with the US or China. European companies are therefore unlikely to gain trust from investors that they will be able to compete. Hence these kinds of top-down iniatives are in a sense the best they can do given rather poor ircumstances for private investment.
apeescape 2y ago
EU is not a homogeneous single entity. Every state is driving their own agenda, and every state is divided into multiple parties often pulling in different directions. It slows down decision-making, in both good and bad. Oftentimes it's hard to sell a Pan-European long-term benefit, if it's cost is that some member states have to lose something in the short term. You could make the argument that similar problems exist in the US too, but I'd argue it's worse in the EU.
igorkraw 2y ago
In the spirit of HN rules, actual answering instead of snark: 1. The memory of Nazis using centralised industrial might and information to kill millions of people (google dutch insurance records Nazis) 2.a much stronger history of workers rights and distrust of rich people together with a different attitude to gouvernement making it politically challenging Can hate it or love it, but the median life expectancy in Europe is much less correlated with wealth and _I think_ is higher from memory, child hunger and food insecurity is much lower and homelessness and other corporate abuse is much less of a problem corrected for wealth and population. Whether we manage to keep this remains to be seen, but I think it's a reasonable set of different preferences
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago
  No offence but those arguments are all silly. >1. The memory of Nazis using centralised industrial might and information to kill millions of people (google dutch insurance records Nazis) We can't stop developing and using modern technology just because one time in the past modern technology was used to kill people. Imagine if prehistoric humans stopped using fire because one time some retard burned down the village, or if they stopped forging steel because swords were used to kill people one time. People kill people, not technology alone. And people who bring in the Nazi atrocities as a joker card against progress in an argument, usually do it for emotional manipulation to move the goalposts and push an agenda, similar to "won't someone think of the children" to push online surveillance. Most normal people don't think of the Nazi atrocities at every decision they make in life, most people think about the problems we have right now. >2.a much stronger history of workers rights and distrust of rich people together with a different attitude to gouvernement making it politically challenging Yeah well the problem is it's always the capitalistic rich people that create jobs and drive innovation. Putting the government in charge of creating jobs and innovations don't end up working well long term.
  - bloomingkales 2y ago
    Most normal people don't think of the Nazi atrocities at every decision they make in life, most people think about the problems we have right now. I don't want to get too Hitler ad reductio, but that's probably what the Nazis thought too. It hasn't even been a 100 years since this all happened man. It's only sociopaths that constantly play up the past is the past nonsense. There's an incredible bravado to it. It's not the past, it was barely yesterday. The only thing I'll grant you is that its probably not happening again only because in the grand time line, less than 100 years is pretty much still happening, we're still INSIDE the chaos of ww2 and nazism. The same way we are all still inside the big bang, expanding outward. But yes, sociopaths need to forget this, similar to how they need to forget an affair or a crime. It is what it is.
cbg0 2y ago
> I don’t understand Europe, why don’t they just focus on hyper growth with limited oversight like America? Well, you've kind of answered it yourself, because the EU is not America. It's an economic and political union formed of very different countries with diverse interests, though those interests primarily are centered around the individual and their rights, and not the corporations' profits, like America is. And yes, I know it's an oversimplification.
- rdm_blackhole 2y ago
  Oh please not this again. You think the EU cares about it's citizens rights when it's been trying for the last 3 years to pass the Chat Control law in order to read all your emails, text messages, analyze all your photos and basically treat you as criminal without having any recourse about it? Is this the kind of rights we are talking about just to be clear?
  - cbg0 2y ago
    Don't make ridiculous generalizations based on a bad example. Right to repair, strong consumer rights, net neutrality, and more can't be discounted because you dislike a proposal.
deepsummer 2y ago
Because people in Europe are generally scared of a free market without strong social security, but believe in government oversight (no matter how often it fails).

EU can always get a discount on that once they ratchet up regulations. I don’t understand Europe, why don’t they just focus on hyper growth with limited oversight like America?

jycr753 2y ago

I believe it's because they have this massive monster in Brussels that needs something to do (chiringuitos) to extract the maximum amount of money—corruption.

wafngar 2y ago
Brussels is quite small. Probably less than Washington.
- tmnvdb 2y ago
  A lot smaller. The city of Amsterdam employs more bureaucracts than the EU.

tmnvdb 2y ago

There is no European (capital) market and the national markets are too small to compete with the US or China. European companies are therefore unlikely to gain trust from investors that they will be able to compete. Hence these kinds of top-down iniatives are in a sense the best they can do given rather poor ircumstances for private investment.

apeescape 2y ago

EU is not a homogeneous single entity. Every state is driving their own agenda, and every state is divided into multiple parties often pulling in different directions. It slows down decision-making, in both good and bad. Oftentimes it's hard to sell a Pan-European long-term benefit, if it's cost is that some member states have to lose something in the short term. You could make the argument that similar problems exist in the US too, but I'd argue it's worse in the EU.

igorkraw 2y ago

In the spirit of HN rules, actual answering instead of snark: 1. The memory of Nazis using centralised industrial might and information to kill millions of people (google dutch insurance records Nazis) 2.a much stronger history of workers rights and distrust of rich people together with a different attitude to gouvernement making it politically challenging Can hate it or love it, but the median life expectancy in Europe is much less correlated with wealth and _I think_ is higher from memory, child hunger and food insecurity is much lower and homelessness and other corporate abuse is much less of a problem corrected for wealth and population. Whether we manage to keep this remains to be seen, but I think it's a reasonable set of different preferences

FirmwareBurner 2y ago
No offence but those arguments are all silly. >1. The memory of Nazis using centralised industrial might and information to kill millions of people (google dutch insurance records Nazis) We can't stop developing and using modern technology just because one time in the past modern technology was used to kill people. Imagine if prehistoric humans stopped using fire because one time some retard burned down the village, or if they stopped forging steel because swords were used to kill people one time. People kill people, not technology alone. And people who bring in the Nazi atrocities as a joker card against progress in an argument, usually do it for emotional manipulation to move the goalposts and push an agenda, similar to "won't someone think of the children" to push online surveillance. Most normal people don't think of the Nazi atrocities at every decision they make in life, most people think about the problems we have right now. >2.a much stronger history of workers rights and distrust of rich people together with a different attitude to gouvernement making it politically challenging Yeah well the problem is it's always the capitalistic rich people that create jobs and drive innovation. Putting the government in charge of creating jobs and innovations don't end up working well long term.
- bloomingkales 2y ago
  Most normal people don't think of the Nazi atrocities at every decision they make in life, most people think about the problems we have right now. I don't want to get too Hitler ad reductio, but that's probably what the Nazis thought too. It hasn't even been a 100 years since this all happened man. It's only sociopaths that constantly play up the past is the past nonsense. There's an incredible bravado to it. It's not the past, it was barely yesterday. The only thing I'll grant you is that its probably not happening again only because in the grand time line, less than 100 years is pretty much still happening, we're still INSIDE the chaos of ww2 and nazism. The same way we are all still inside the big bang, expanding outward. But yes, sociopaths need to forget this, similar to how they need to forget an affair or a crime. It is what it is.

cbg0 2y ago

> I don’t understand Europe, why don’t they just focus on hyper growth with limited oversight like America? Well, you've kind of answered it yourself, because the EU is not America. It's an economic and political union formed of very different countries with diverse interests, though those interests primarily are centered around the individual and their rights, and not the corporations' profits, like America is. And yes, I know it's an oversimplification.

rdm_blackhole 2y ago
Oh please not this again. You think the EU cares about it's citizens rights when it's been trying for the last 3 years to pass the Chat Control law in order to read all your emails, text messages, analyze all your photos and basically treat you as criminal without having any recourse about it? Is this the kind of rights we are talking about just to be clear?
- cbg0 2y ago
  Don't make ridiculous generalizations based on a bad example. Right to repair, strong consumer rights, net neutrality, and more can't be discounted because you dislike a proposal.

deepsummer 2y ago

Because people in Europe are generally scared of a free market without strong social security, but believe in government oversight (no matter how often it fails).