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That's not questioning as in asking, that's accusing someone of something nobody can disprove. And if every single person who doesn't see the Nazi salute acts

That's not questioning as in asking, that's accusing someone of something nobody can disprove. And if every single person who doesn't see the Nazi salute acts this way, smearing those who do, that's kind of telling. Basically "because it's not a Nazi salute, you're just a far leftist foreign agent nonperson" -- okay? That really does prove the point, and being confused by that shows having read zero bookshelves about Nazi Germany. It's perfectly on point, that's exactly been the Nazi MO -- projection and the most insane accusations dropped casually, like "questioning the funding that would make someone say it's a Nazi salute". It's also been the MO of Stalinism and Maoism, and lots of cults, and thousands of other things. But he happened to do a Nazi salute, so hey. And in Germany there's mainly two main: people who are appalled by Musk's Nazi salute and Nazis who love it. Not to mention how Elon Musk mingles with Nazis, which he does, and that it happened during the inauguration of a president who said he could shoot people in broad daylight and his supporters wouldn't mind. There's plenty of context. If your goal post is 1920s to 1945 NSDAP then that means having learned nothing.

romaaeterna 2y ago
[flagged]
- Philpax 2y ago
  https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/elon-musks-call-germany-move-nazi-guilt-dangerous-holocaust-memorial-c-rcna189316 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/elon-musks-call-germany-m...
- computerthings 2y ago
  That it is the gesture. My eyes motivate me. > Sticking one's arm out is not a "Nazi salute" in the absence of an ideological component. Right, so if someone does it to troll or upset people, but isn't a Nazi, it's no longer a Nazi salute? That's just extreme mental gymnastics. edit: and that you insist on a "ideological component" is another reason I doubt you have any knowledge about historical Nazism. People followed and rationalized Hitler for all sorts of reasons. It's just movement, in-group vs. everyone else, with lies and violence getting more and more sanctified. All the words, and who happens to be enemy or ally, were interchangeable. Adolf Hitler was mocking "Germanic clamoring" behind closed doors, while he thought in "Aryan terms" and all that. How many books did you read about Germany in the 1930s and 1940s? Zero? Do you think you can just wing this from first principles and Cliff's notes?
- BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
  > sticking one’s arm out Well there’s also the pressing of the fingers together, the angling of the arm upwards from horizontal, the straightening of the elbow, the straightening of the wrist, etc. >in the absence of an ideological component Do you understand the concept of a symbol? You see, sometimes humans link abstract ideas to particular visual phenomena that impact the retina, like letters, colors, gestures even. Sometimes, even, humans deploy symbols in strategic and surreptitious ways that allow them to maintain plausible deniability in the face of a public that still isn’t entirely on board with the deployment of said symbols, rather than explicitly announcing the intent behind their deployment before and after the fact. You aren’t an alien, so stop playing dumb.
- SideQuark 2y ago
  Looking at static images of people waving and reaching your conclusion is like showing a picture of a plane just before it crashed and claiming it didn’t. Did you consider looking at videos of the things you claim are equivalent? Here’s what Musk did, twice, next to Getty Images videos of other fascist and Nazi salutes. https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/1i7w4nz/comparison_of_elon_musks_nazi_salute_with_real/ https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/1i7w4nz/comparison_of... Now, if you’re intellectually honest, you will go find the videos of the false equivalencies you’re posting, look at them, and admit those examples you posted are nothing like Musk’s, or Nazis.
- wobfan 2y ago
  > Sticking one's arm out is not a "Nazi salute" in the absence of an ideological component. What? So showing someone the middle finger straight in the face without also verbally expressing it (aka. showing their ideological component, to be as vague as you were), is not a bad thing at all, but an entirely neutral finger gesture, too? Also: how can someone honestly compare the static images provided with Musk's salute. Apart from comparing static images being nonsensical when it's about a salute; even the referenced images are chosen so badly, that they look nothing like a Nazi salute. Like, you need to be aware of you mental gymnastics.
- computerthings 2y ago
  here's a video comparison https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Zwiv8erk0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Zwiv8erk0 it is what it is
  - romaaeterna 2y ago
    Hitler's salute doesn't involve the heart gesture, nor did Mussolini's version, which is why they flip to the random guy in a mask in your video. But it's all nonsense, even if it were exactly the same physical gesture. There's no intellectual or political connection. No sane watcher of events believes that Musk has any connection to the issues of the 1930s-40s Nazi party. It's just not there in his history or very very public persona. There are eminently sane things to criticize Musk for. There are great points to make. But this sort of thing is crackpot and poisons anyone else trying to make rational critique.
- tgv 2y ago
  > he made explicit fascist statements You're shifting the discussion from salute to conviction. > Here is a collage of images And now we know you're acting in bad faith.

romaaeterna 2y ago

[flagged]

Philpax 2y ago
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/elon-musks-call-germany-move-nazi-guilt-dangerous-holocaust-memorial-c-rcna189316 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/elon-musks-call-germany-m...
computerthings 2y ago
That it is the gesture. My eyes motivate me. > Sticking one's arm out is not a "Nazi salute" in the absence of an ideological component. Right, so if someone does it to troll or upset people, but isn't a Nazi, it's no longer a Nazi salute? That's just extreme mental gymnastics. edit: and that you insist on a "ideological component" is another reason I doubt you have any knowledge about historical Nazism. People followed and rationalized Hitler for all sorts of reasons. It's just movement, in-group vs. everyone else, with lies and violence getting more and more sanctified. All the words, and who happens to be enemy or ally, were interchangeable. Adolf Hitler was mocking "Germanic clamoring" behind closed doors, while he thought in "Aryan terms" and all that. How many books did you read about Germany in the 1930s and 1940s? Zero? Do you think you can just wing this from first principles and Cliff's notes?
BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
> sticking one’s arm out Well there’s also the pressing of the fingers together, the angling of the arm upwards from horizontal, the straightening of the elbow, the straightening of the wrist, etc. >in the absence of an ideological component Do you understand the concept of a symbol? You see, sometimes humans link abstract ideas to particular visual phenomena that impact the retina, like letters, colors, gestures even. Sometimes, even, humans deploy symbols in strategic and surreptitious ways that allow them to maintain plausible deniability in the face of a public that still isn’t entirely on board with the deployment of said symbols, rather than explicitly announcing the intent behind their deployment before and after the fact. You aren’t an alien, so stop playing dumb.
SideQuark 2y ago
Looking at static images of people waving and reaching your conclusion is like showing a picture of a plane just before it crashed and claiming it didn’t. Did you consider looking at videos of the things you claim are equivalent? Here’s what Musk did, twice, next to Getty Images videos of other fascist and Nazi salutes. https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/1i7w4nz/comparison_of_elon_musks_nazi_salute_with_real/ https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/1i7w4nz/comparison_of... Now, if you’re intellectually honest, you will go find the videos of the false equivalencies you’re posting, look at them, and admit those examples you posted are nothing like Musk’s, or Nazis.
wobfan 2y ago
> Sticking one's arm out is not a "Nazi salute" in the absence of an ideological component. What? So showing someone the middle finger straight in the face without also verbally expressing it (aka. showing their ideological component, to be as vague as you were), is not a bad thing at all, but an entirely neutral finger gesture, too? Also: how can someone honestly compare the static images provided with Musk's salute. Apart from comparing static images being nonsensical when it's about a salute; even the referenced images are chosen so badly, that they look nothing like a Nazi salute. Like, you need to be aware of you mental gymnastics.
computerthings 2y ago
here's a video comparison https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Zwiv8erk0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Zwiv8erk0 it is what it is
- romaaeterna 2y ago
  Hitler's salute doesn't involve the heart gesture, nor did Mussolini's version, which is why they flip to the random guy in a mask in your video. But it's all nonsense, even if it were exactly the same physical gesture. There's no intellectual or political connection. No sane watcher of events believes that Musk has any connection to the issues of the 1930s-40s Nazi party. It's just not there in his history or very very public persona. There are eminently sane things to criticize Musk for. There are great points to make. But this sort of thing is crackpot and poisons anyone else trying to make rational critique.
tgv 2y ago
> he made explicit fascist statements You're shifting the discussion from salute to conviction. > Here is a collage of images And now we know you're acting in bad faith.