4 ms·

> question your motivations/funding sources for the accusation That's the 1930s-1940s German ideological element. You're doing it right now.

romaaeterna 2y ago
Questioning the motivations and funding of a biased source is more generally viewed to be a Journalism 101 thing than a 1930s-1940s German thing. Nor am I Elon Musk, which seems to be the subtext of this "you're doing it now" claim (one I find quite bizarre).
- computerthings 2y ago
  That's not questioning as in asking, that's accusing someone of something nobody can disprove. And if every single person who doesn't see the Nazi salute acts this way, smearing those who do, that's kind of telling. Basically "because it's not a Nazi salute, you're just a far leftist foreign agent nonperson" -- okay? That really does prove the point, and being confused by that shows having read zero bookshelves about Nazi Germany. It's perfectly on point, that's exactly been the Nazi MO -- projection and the most insane accusations dropped casually, like "questioning the funding that would make someone say it's a Nazi salute". It's also been the MO of Stalinism and Maoism, and lots of cults, and thousands of other things. But he happened to do a Nazi salute, so hey. And in Germany there's mainly two main: people who are appalled by Musk's Nazi salute and Nazis who love it. Not to mention how Elon Musk mingles with Nazis, which he does, and that it happened during the inauguration of a president who said he could shoot people in broad daylight and his supporters wouldn't mind. There's plenty of context. If your goal post is 1920s to 1945 NSDAP then that means having learned nothing.
  - romaaeterna 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - Philpax 2y ago
      https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/elon-musks-call-germany-move-nazi-guilt-dangerous-holocaust-memorial-c-rcna189316 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/elon-musks-call-germany-m...
    - computerthings 2y ago
      That it is the gesture. My eyes motivate me. > Sticking one's arm out is not a "Nazi salute" in the absence of an ideological component. Right, so if someone does it to troll or upset people, but isn't a Nazi, it's no longer a Nazi salute? That's just extreme mental gymnastics. edit: and that you insist on a "ideological component" is another reason I doubt you have any knowledge about historical Nazism. People followed and rationalized Hitler for all sorts of reasons. It's just movement, in-group vs. everyone else, with lies and violence getting more and more sanctified. All the words, and who happens to be enemy or ally, were interchangeable. Adolf Hitler was mocking "Germanic clamoring" behind closed doors, while he thought in "Aryan terms" and all that. How many books did you read about Germany in the 1930s and 1940s? Zero? Do you think you can just wing this from first principles and Cliff's notes?
    - BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
      > sticking one’s arm out Well there’s also the pressing of the fingers together, the angling of the arm upwards from horizontal, the straightening of the elbow, the straightening of the wrist, etc. >in the absence of an ideological component Do you understand the concept of a symbol? You see, sometimes humans link abstract ideas to particular visual phenomena that impact the retina, like letters, colors, gestures even. Sometimes, even, humans deploy symbols in strategic and surreptitious ways that allow them to maintain plausible deniability in the face of a public that still isn’t entirely on board with the deployment of said symbols, rather than explicitly announcing the intent behind their deployment before and after the fact. You aren’t an alien, so stop playing dumb.
    - SideQuark 2y ago
      Looking at static images of people waving and reaching your conclusion is like showing a picture of a plane just before it crashed and claiming it didn’t. Did you consider looking at videos of the things you claim are equivalent? Here’s what Musk did, twice, next to Getty Images videos of other fascist and Nazi salutes. https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/1i7w4nz/comparison_of_elon_musks_nazi_salute_with_real/ https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/1i7w4nz/comparison_of... Now, if you’re intellectually honest, you will go find the videos of the false equivalencies you’re posting, look at them, and admit those examples you posted are nothing like Musk’s, or Nazis.

romaaeterna 2y ago

Questioning the motivations and funding of a biased source is more generally viewed to be a Journalism 101 thing than a 1930s-1940s German thing. Nor am I Elon Musk, which seems to be the subtext of this "you're doing it now" claim (one I find quite bizarre).

computerthings 2y ago
That's not questioning as in asking, that's accusing someone of something nobody can disprove. And if every single person who doesn't see the Nazi salute acts this way, smearing those who do, that's kind of telling. Basically "because it's not a Nazi salute, you're just a far leftist foreign agent nonperson" -- okay? That really does prove the point, and being confused by that shows having read zero bookshelves about Nazi Germany. It's perfectly on point, that's exactly been the Nazi MO -- projection and the most insane accusations dropped casually, like "questioning the funding that would make someone say it's a Nazi salute". It's also been the MO of Stalinism and Maoism, and lots of cults, and thousands of other things. But he happened to do a Nazi salute, so hey. And in Germany there's mainly two main: people who are appalled by Musk's Nazi salute and Nazis who love it. Not to mention how Elon Musk mingles with Nazis, which he does, and that it happened during the inauguration of a president who said he could shoot people in broad daylight and his supporters wouldn't mind. There's plenty of context. If your goal post is 1920s to 1945 NSDAP then that means having learned nothing.
- romaaeterna 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - Philpax 2y ago
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/elon-musks-call-germany-move-nazi-guilt-dangerous-holocaust-memorial-c-rcna189316 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/elon-musks-call-germany-m...
  - computerthings 2y ago
    That it is the gesture. My eyes motivate me. > Sticking one's arm out is not a "Nazi salute" in the absence of an ideological component. Right, so if someone does it to troll or upset people, but isn't a Nazi, it's no longer a Nazi salute? That's just extreme mental gymnastics. edit: and that you insist on a "ideological component" is another reason I doubt you have any knowledge about historical Nazism. People followed and rationalized Hitler for all sorts of reasons. It's just movement, in-group vs. everyone else, with lies and violence getting more and more sanctified. All the words, and who happens to be enemy or ally, were interchangeable. Adolf Hitler was mocking "Germanic clamoring" behind closed doors, while he thought in "Aryan terms" and all that. How many books did you read about Germany in the 1930s and 1940s? Zero? Do you think you can just wing this from first principles and Cliff's notes?
  - BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
    > sticking one’s arm out Well there’s also the pressing of the fingers together, the angling of the arm upwards from horizontal, the straightening of the elbow, the straightening of the wrist, etc. >in the absence of an ideological component Do you understand the concept of a symbol? You see, sometimes humans link abstract ideas to particular visual phenomena that impact the retina, like letters, colors, gestures even. Sometimes, even, humans deploy symbols in strategic and surreptitious ways that allow them to maintain plausible deniability in the face of a public that still isn’t entirely on board with the deployment of said symbols, rather than explicitly announcing the intent behind their deployment before and after the fact. You aren’t an alien, so stop playing dumb.
  - SideQuark 2y ago
    Looking at static images of people waving and reaching your conclusion is like showing a picture of a plane just before it crashed and claiming it didn’t. Did you consider looking at videos of the things you claim are equivalent? Here’s what Musk did, twice, next to Getty Images videos of other fascist and Nazi salutes. https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/1i7w4nz/comparison_of_elon_musks_nazi_salute_with_real/ https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/1i7w4nz/comparison_of... Now, if you’re intellectually honest, you will go find the videos of the false equivalencies you’re posting, look at them, and admit those examples you posted are nothing like Musk’s, or Nazis.