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Unusual that car black box data is not available to the car owner. I would expect it to be. With some effort, perhaps we can get it to be this way in California

Unusual that car black box data is not available to the car owner. I would expect it to be. With some effort, perhaps we can get it to be this way in California, though I suppose the fear is that the manufacturer will simply remove car telemetry in California if almost every car has something that could be twisted to be liability.

speedgoose 2y ago
They eventually did in this story. Tesla had finally given Zhang what she’d been asking for, but they’d published the data publicly and included her vehicle identification number. She said she and her family started getting threatened and doxed online. Besides, she wondered, how could she be sure Tesla hadn’t modified or redacted the data from her car? It was less than the victory she’d hoped for. Feeling besieged, she sued Tesla a second time, in March 2022, for invading her privacy. Zhang lost both cases she brought against Tesla.
- packtreefly 2y ago
  The problem isn't that the owner didn't get the data. The problem is that the method for getting the data is that you must beg Tesla for it, rather than just slurping it out of a USB port inside the car. If Tesla is going to go to the trouble of uploading all this shit to the cloud anyway, the least they can do is give customers a no-questions-asked download button.
  - simondotau 2y ago
    I agree with the sentiment, but in practice this is a horrific idea. Make it easy and it’ll be snaffled up by law enforcement, whether covertly, with intimidation, or with routine warrants.
    - packtreefly 2y ago
      It's currently accessible to law enforcement via the law-abiding manufacturer acting as sole custodian. I don't see how this makes any difference.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    Not only do you have to beg Tesla for it, but you have to trust that Tesla hasn't doctored the data to corroborate the narrative that Tesla wants.
    - simondotau 2y ago
      You say that like there's any plausible alternative. Unless you're compiling the source code running on the car, you are trusting the manufacturer.
  - whamlastxmas 2y ago
    This is factually not true. You fill out a single form on their website and get it less than a week later: https://www.tesla.com/support/privacy#data-provided https://www.tesla.com/support/privacy#data-provided There’s tons of anecdotes of people doing this very easily online. Good luck getting data this easily from any other major manufacturer
    - packtreefly 2y ago
      That counts as begging from my point of view. > Good luck getting data this easily from any other major manufacturer This is an industry-wide problem.
      - 93po 2y ago
        If that's begging then signing up for literally any website is begging the website for an account
thatguy0900 2y ago
I believe massachitses has such a law on the books but is currently being sued by aitomalers so can't enforce it https://www.bostonglobe.com/2025/02/11/business/automotive-right-to-repair-federal-judge-approves/ https://www.bostonglobe.com/2025/02/11/business/automotive-r...
- ThePowerOfFuet 2y ago
  >massachitses >aitomalers Are you feeling OK?
  - bmn__ 2y ago
    Consider just ignoring posts with bad spelling altogether: https://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/strikeout/ https://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/strikeout/
    - porridgeraisin 2y ago
      Wow. That's... Dramatic. If you internally transliterated it correctly without much effort, why do you care? They might as well be the same word. Correct/incorrect spelling/grammar/vocabulary only matters practicalky if using the "incirrect one" causes ambuguity in the giben context.
      - wruza 2y ago
        My mind stumbles upon it and loses the flow of thought. I tend to just ignore posts like that too after a couple of strikes (mistakes are fine, second language-ing is fine, leftovers are not fine). Don’t have linguistic respect, don’t have my attention.
  - thatguy0900 2y ago
    That's the result of 2am swiping on my phone without looking, lol.
  - readthenotes1 2y ago
    I upvoted the post just to show solidarity with the auto-correct gone wrong tribe

speedgoose 2y ago

They eventually did in this story. Tesla had finally given Zhang what she’d been asking for, but they’d published the data publicly and included her vehicle identification number. She said she and her family started getting threatened and doxed online. Besides, she wondered, how could she be sure Tesla hadn’t modified or redacted the data from her car? It was less than the victory she’d hoped for. Feeling besieged, she sued Tesla a second time, in March 2022, for invading her privacy. Zhang lost both cases she brought against Tesla.

packtreefly 2y ago
The problem isn't that the owner didn't get the data. The problem is that the method for getting the data is that you must beg Tesla for it, rather than just slurping it out of a USB port inside the car. If Tesla is going to go to the trouble of uploading all this shit to the cloud anyway, the least they can do is give customers a no-questions-asked download button.
- simondotau 2y ago
  I agree with the sentiment, but in practice this is a horrific idea. Make it easy and it’ll be snaffled up by law enforcement, whether covertly, with intimidation, or with routine warrants.
  - packtreefly 2y ago
    It's currently accessible to law enforcement via the law-abiding manufacturer acting as sole custodian. I don't see how this makes any difference.
- kelnos 2y ago
  Not only do you have to beg Tesla for it, but you have to trust that Tesla hasn't doctored the data to corroborate the narrative that Tesla wants.
  - simondotau 2y ago
    You say that like there's any plausible alternative. Unless you're compiling the source code running on the car, you are trusting the manufacturer.
- whamlastxmas 2y ago
  This is factually not true. You fill out a single form on their website and get it less than a week later: https://www.tesla.com/support/privacy#data-provided https://www.tesla.com/support/privacy#data-provided There’s tons of anecdotes of people doing this very easily online. Good luck getting data this easily from any other major manufacturer
  - packtreefly 2y ago
    That counts as begging from my point of view. > Good luck getting data this easily from any other major manufacturer This is an industry-wide problem.
    - 93po 2y ago
      If that's begging then signing up for literally any website is begging the website for an account

thatguy0900 2y ago

I believe massachitses has such a law on the books but is currently being sued by aitomalers so can't enforce it https://www.bostonglobe.com/2025/02/11/business/automotive-right-to-repair-federal-judge-approves/ https://www.bostonglobe.com/2025/02/11/business/automotive-r...

ThePowerOfFuet 2y ago
>massachitses >aitomalers Are you feeling OK?
- bmn__ 2y ago
  Consider just ignoring posts with bad spelling altogether: https://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/strikeout/ https://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/strikeout/
  - porridgeraisin 2y ago
    Wow. That's... Dramatic. If you internally transliterated it correctly without much effort, why do you care? They might as well be the same word. Correct/incorrect spelling/grammar/vocabulary only matters practicalky if using the "incirrect one" causes ambuguity in the giben context.
    - wruza 2y ago
      My mind stumbles upon it and loses the flow of thought. I tend to just ignore posts like that too after a couple of strikes (mistakes are fine, second language-ing is fine, leftovers are not fine). Don’t have linguistic respect, don’t have my attention.
- thatguy0900 2y ago
  That's the result of 2am swiping on my phone without looking, lol.
- readthenotes1 2y ago
  I upvoted the post just to show solidarity with the auto-correct gone wrong tribe