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Parents were injured in a Tesla crash. She ended up having to pay Tesla damages
- renewiltord 2y agoUnusual that car black box data is not available to the car owner. I would expect it to be. With some effort, perhaps we can get it to be this way in California, though I suppose the fear is that the manufacturer will simply remove car telemetry in California if almost every car has something that could be twisted to be liability.
- speedgoose 2y agoThey eventually did in this story. Tesla had finally given Zhang what she’d been asking for, but they’d published the data publicly and included her vehicle identification number. She said she and her family started getting threatened and doxed online. Besides, she wondered, how could she be sure Tesla hadn’t modified or redacted the data from her car? It was less than the victory she’d hoped for. Feeling besieged, she sued Tesla a second time, in March 2022, for invading her privacy. Zhang lost both cases she brought against Tesla.
- packtreefly 2y agoThe problem isn't that the owner didn't get the data. The problem is that the method for getting the data is that you must beg Tesla for it, rather than just slurping it out of a USB port inside the car. If Tesla is going to go to the trouble of uploading all this shit to the cloud anyway, the least they can do is give customers a no-questions-asked download button.
- simondotau 2y agoI agree with the sentiment, but in practice this is a horrific idea. Make it easy and it’ll be snaffled up by law enforcement, whether covertly, with intimidation, or with routine warrants.
- packtreefly 2y agoIt's currently accessible to law enforcement via the law-abiding manufacturer acting as sole custodian. I don't see how this makes any difference.
- kelnos 2y agoNot only do you have to beg Tesla for it, but you have to trust that Tesla hasn't doctored the data to corroborate the narrative that Tesla wants.
- simondotau 2y agoYou say that like there's any plausible alternative. Unless you're compiling the source code running on the car, you are trusting the manufacturer.
- whamlastxmas 2y agoThis is factually not true. You fill out a single form on their website and get it less than a week later: https://www.tesla.com/support/privacy#data-provided https://www.tesla.com/support/privacy#data-provided There’s tons of anecdotes of people doing this very easily online. Good luck getting data this easily from any other major manufacturer
- packtreefly 2y agoThat counts as begging from my point of view. > Good luck getting data this easily from any other major manufacturer This is an industry-wide problem.
- 93po 2y agoIf that's begging then signing up for literally any website is begging the website for an account
- thatguy0900 2y agoI believe massachitses has such a law on the books but is currently being sued by aitomalers so can't enforce it https://www.bostonglobe.com/2025/02/11/business/automotive-right-to-repair-federal-judge-approves/ https://www.bostonglobe.com/2025/02/11/business/automotive-r...
- ThePowerOfFuet 2y ago>massachitses >aitomalers Are you feeling OK?
- bmn__ 2y agoConsider just ignoring posts with bad spelling altogether: https://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/strikeout/ https://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/strikeout/
- porridgeraisin 2y agoWow. That's... Dramatic. If you internally transliterated it correctly without much effort, why do you care? They might as well be the same word. Correct/incorrect spelling/grammar/vocabulary only matters practicalky if using the "incirrect one" causes ambuguity in the giben context.
- wruza 2y agoMy mind stumbles upon it and loses the flow of thought. I tend to just ignore posts like that too after a couple of strikes (mistakes are fine, second language-ing is fine, leftovers are not fine). Don’t have linguistic respect, don’t have my attention.
- thatguy0900 2y agoThat's the result of 2am swiping on my phone without looking, lol.
- readthenotes1 2y agoI upvoted the post just to show solidarity with the auto-correct gone wrong tribe
- bigtones 2y agoEdited: Very similar to another Tesla crash in China with a social media protest. In that crash the brake lights did not come on at all. In fact the acccelerator was pressed down 100% for a full five seconds before the crash which was entirely the drivers fault. The defendant knew this and Tesla gave the family the car telemetry data, but continued to falsely protest that the brakes were depressed during a lengthy social media campaign, and as a result determined by a Chinese court Telsa was awarded damages and the family was asked to publicly apologize. https://carnewschina.com/2023/03/02/tesla-model-y-crash-investigation-revealed-accelerator-was-pressed-100-brakes-not-applied/ https://carnewschina.com/2023/03/02/tesla-model-y-crash-inve...
- hn1378 2y agoDifferent crash. Article crash had people injured. Your link is a fatal crash. OP's article is about a Model 3 crash, yours is about a Model Y.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- bigtones 2y agoThanks, amended post.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- amscanne 2y agoIt seems the facts of the story are similar though. In the Zhang case, they were driving 50 mph over the speed limit. Brakes were depressed, but not hard or early enough. Automatic braking kicked in, which caused the brake pedal to be depressed much harder, but not enough to avoid the crash (and possibly led to driver believing that there was a brake failure?). At least, this is what I found [1] while trying to understand the story a bit better. Who knows what's true? [1] https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-3-braking-failure-reproduced-with-video.226789/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-3-braking-fail...
- chvid 2y ago"It is not common practice for automakers — in China or elsewhere — to sue their customers. But Tesla has pioneered an aggressive legal strategy and leveraged the patronage of powerful leaders in China’s ruling Communist Party to silence critics, reap financial rewards and limit its accountability."
- johnnyanmac 2y agoEveryone missing the big picture here with this statement. This is not usual at all, doesn't matter about stuff like "driver error".
- simondotau 2y agoThat's an example of the article being egregiously misleading. It implies that Tesla used the courts to silence an innocent customer, when in fact the customer sued Tesla first. And also second. Given the actions of the customer, I'd argue that Tesla's strategy was quite restrained. There's no evidence of this being a "strategy". As for the latter half of the paragraph, is there any evidence for any of that? Because it's certainly not presented in the article. Was any patronage "leveraged" here? Was any genuine critic silenced? Was any accountability limited? Maybe, but there's no evidence for it.
- FireBeyond 2y agoThe customer initially sued Tesla because they were refusing to provide the data. Apparently, to you, that’s overreaching by the customer. And then when they did, they didn’t release it to her, they published it publicly, with identifying information leading to her allegedly receiving threats (when we all know Tesla fans would never ever harass detractors). Regardless of who was actually at fault, the contortions you go through to paint this as a “restrained” response would likely put a pretzel to shame.
- simondotau 2y agoTo be clear, I think Tesla should be providing that information to customers upon request. And I think all carmakers should be obligated to do so. But Tesla aren't currently obligated to do so under normal circumstances, and I can imagine why they wouldn't want to set a precedent prematurely. (As the saying goes, hard cases make bad law.) > Apparently, to you, that’s overreaching I didn't say that. I wouldn't say that. Putting words into my mouth isn't conducive to truth seeking, or basic conversational decency. I would never consider exercising one's legal rights to be overreach. The same goes for Tesla when they exercise their legal rights. My point is that this particular matter isn't a useful point to extrapolate Tesla's "strategy". Tesla has sold a massive number of cars in China and across the world; presumably a large fraction going to reasonably wealthy people with the means to seek redress. If there was a systemic issue here, we'd expect to see far more evidence of it than this. > allegedly receiving threats I don't know the finer details of this specific case, but it seems this customer has a proven track record of making misleading statements for media attention. They don't get my benefit of the doubt, and they don't deserve yours. > the contortions you go through to paint this as a “restrained” response All I said to justify Tesla's actions as 'restrained' was "Given the actions of the customer". I'm confused where you allege the the pretzel-like contortion to be.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- shkkmo 2y agoThe framing of this whole article is weird. Zhang is put forward as some kind of example of the favourable treatment Tesla is getting in the courts and how Tesla is silencing critics. Yet she was wrong about the cause of the accident and didn't just criticize, but actively protested at industry events and Tesla still didn't open their defamation suit until after she started hers. I'm sympathetic to the idea behind this article, but it doesn't seem to actually do any of the work to justify it's conclusions. I do think that owners should be given full access to all telemetry data from their vehicles and the fact that Tesla doesn't do this is very disappointing.
- marcusverus 2y agoJournalism is a masterclass in how to deceive without lying.
- porridgeraisin 2y agoNice way to put it, stealing that one.
- kelnos 2y ago> Yet she was wrong about the cause of the accident I don't think we can take that at face value. Tesla refused to release the pre-crash data for... weeks? Months? And only did so after perhaps it seemed like they might lose the case. Why not release the data immediately? Sure, it's possible that the driver screwed up, and even if he really did cry out "the brakes aren't working!" as the woman claims, he was just confused and doing the wrong thing. But I wouldn't put it past Tesla to release fake vehicle telemetry that supports their case, either.
- shkkmo 2y ago> But I wouldn't put it past Tesla to release fake vehicle telemetry that supports their case, either. Perhaps, but there isn't any evidence of this, just speculation from an interested party. This speculation is what the whole premise of the article hinges on, but there is no support provided for it. Instead the article seems to bank on a readership that dislikes Musk so much that they don't engage any critical thinking skills . The risk of being exposed for lying in court and faking telemetry data does not seem like it would be remotely worth it to win this lawsuit for Tesla.
- mquander 2y agoIf there's an actual problem with Chinese courts corruptly defending Tesla, why is this article presenting a case where Tesla seems to be in the right, rather than one in which the court made a clearly corrupt decision?
- simondotau 2y ago> rather than one in which the court made a clearly corrupt decision? Are you aware of any clearly corrupt decisions?
- wruza 2y agoThe whole article is unrelated to the headline, it’s just a classic journalist turn. The authors already know who’s wrong without any hearings.
- kelnos 2y ago> why is this article presenting a case where Tesla seems to be in the right The only evidence that the crash was caused by the driver was provided by Tesla themselves. Of course they would provide data to support their case, fabricated or otherwise. It's weird that the woman in the article asked for Tesla to provide the pre-crash data, but they refused until much later, after the legal proceedings were going on. Why not provide that data immediately?
- cosmotic 2y agoI can't think of a single company that would provide data upon request. Certainly Google, Microsoft, Apple, Ford, GM,Samsung, UPS, etc... wouldn't.
- johnnyanmac 2y agoGood thing that's a state mandate in my state.
- akimbostrawman 2y ago
- samyar 2y agoHacker news or traffic news?
- waltercool 2y agoIf the reason of the accident was responsibility of the user and then blamed the company, then I think is fair. Especially like people in the US where people use the auto-drive function completely unattended, just to blame the company later.
- ddxv 2y agoAnother interesting flagged article related to negative news about Tesla
- simondotau 2y agoIt's flagged because it's clickbait. The article is about a customer who tried to extort Tesla with false/misleading accusations designed to inflict reputational harm, then took it too far by suing Tesla, and then suing them again.
- ddxv 2y ago"The company has also sued at least six bloggers and two Chinese media outlets that wrote critically about the company, according to a review of public court documents" From the article. It's more than just a single customer who they sued.
- simondotau 2y agoThis article is about one customer. If you want to assert that some other cases represent evidence of anything, I'd certainly be interested to read about it. But I'm not going to extrapolate that single sentence into a moral judgement — as though we're supposed to assume that anything Tesla does is bad until proven otherwise.