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That was beautifully written. There are an estimated 50 sextillion (5*10^22) habitable earth-like planets in the observable universe. On average they're 1.8 bi

That was beautifully written. There are an estimated 50 sextillion (5*10^22) habitable earth-like planets in the observable universe. On average they're 1.8 billion years older than Earth. Think about the implications of this for a minute. We don't see green space men, but that's not how we would expect life forms billions of years more advanced than us to appear. The entire universe must be suffused with intelligence, and if that's so, doesn't that suggest there is more to life than what you see on the surface? I find this conclusion inescapable when considering the size and age of the universe. There is more to life than meets the eye. How could it be otherwise?

didericis 2y ago
Thank you, appreciate the compliment. I actually just edited it/got a bit self conscious about the tone and added some references, in part because I think truly grokking the core of what I’m saying (which fits perfectly with what you’re saying/is a conclusion I’ve also come to) is both really profound and really easy for engineering minded people like most of this audience to dismiss if you don’t ground it properly. Was worried I was getting overly fluffy and people would then assume the evidence and strength of the argument was less grounded than it is, and pared it down before seeing your reply. Hopefully I kept enough to retain what resonated. There’s something about acknowledging the extent of the unknown that’s extremely humbling, awe inspiring, and difficult to adequately articulate, and it’s something I think is important to spend extra effort communicating.
rixed 2y ago
> We don't see green space men, but that's not how we would expect life forms billions of years more advanced than us to appear. From the history of life on Earth, we should expect extraterrestrial life forms to appear as a self replicating molecular device way simpler than this accidental peculiar ape with a large brain that we usually associate with the notion of intelligence.
- stormfather 2y ago
  I'm talking about the end-state of super-evolved lifeforms with runaway intelligence, like humanity. Imagine how humanity will change over the next million years. We will become like Q from Star Trek TNG - beings that are essentially godlike and that transcend the need for bodies, however tiny, and that can project themselves instantly anywhere. Beings that are immortal and beyond the need to replicate, and have somewhat inscrutable goals for involving themselves with lesser lifeforms. Therefore that is what other lifeforms evolved into on some of the other 50 sextillion habitable planets, only billions of years ago. That is the kind of life that I am saying surely now fills the universe. Whatever its nature, it is statistically certain that it exists and is omnipotent, and at the very least permits you the space to exist. I would even say it is certain to be infinitely curious and is aware of us. Perhaps such advanced life is compassionate, wants you to grow, and abhors waste and death. Perhaps it sees you like a rose in a garden. Perhaps its an agent of some deeper level of existence you aren't privy to which would explain phenomenon like commonalities in near death experiences, or children that remember their past lives.
  - rixed 2y ago
    I've met a few people with the same amazing optimism that you describe here and it always surprised me (thank you for that by the way, I understand it requires more nerve to display optimism than pessimism as the former is often associated with silliness whereas the later is more often seen as "sad but true"). This kind of reasoning feels like bad extrapolation : you consider humans 100k years ago and humans now, and you extrapolate ; sure enough, it looks like we are in a journey to become some abstract intelligence filling the universe. But if you take more samples in the so much longer history of life on earth, you will see that among all life forms that appeared and disappeared, human-like intelligence emerged only once, by accident. And it seems to me that the chaotic evolution of human civilization strongly suggest that it will also disappear accidentally. Natural selection does not select for that kind of intelligence. Awareness of the environment, yes ; good predictor of the near future changes of this environment, yes. But the creation of larger and larger organisms like a civilization that would evade Earth? I see no reason for that in theory and no evidence in practice.
    - 2y ago

didericis 2y ago

Thank you, appreciate the compliment. I actually just edited it/got a bit self conscious about the tone and added some references, in part because I think truly grokking the core of what I’m saying (which fits perfectly with what you’re saying/is a conclusion I’ve also come to) is both really profound and really easy for engineering minded people like most of this audience to dismiss if you don’t ground it properly. Was worried I was getting overly fluffy and people would then assume the evidence and strength of the argument was less grounded than it is, and pared it down before seeing your reply. Hopefully I kept enough to retain what resonated. There’s something about acknowledging the extent of the unknown that’s extremely humbling, awe inspiring, and difficult to adequately articulate, and it’s something I think is important to spend extra effort communicating.

rixed 2y ago

> We don't see green space men, but that's not how we would expect life forms billions of years more advanced than us to appear. From the history of life on Earth, we should expect extraterrestrial life forms to appear as a self replicating molecular device way simpler than this accidental peculiar ape with a large brain that we usually associate with the notion of intelligence.

stormfather 2y ago
I'm talking about the end-state of super-evolved lifeforms with runaway intelligence, like humanity. Imagine how humanity will change over the next million years. We will become like Q from Star Trek TNG - beings that are essentially godlike and that transcend the need for bodies, however tiny, and that can project themselves instantly anywhere. Beings that are immortal and beyond the need to replicate, and have somewhat inscrutable goals for involving themselves with lesser lifeforms. Therefore that is what other lifeforms evolved into on some of the other 50 sextillion habitable planets, only billions of years ago. That is the kind of life that I am saying surely now fills the universe. Whatever its nature, it is statistically certain that it exists and is omnipotent, and at the very least permits you the space to exist. I would even say it is certain to be infinitely curious and is aware of us. Perhaps such advanced life is compassionate, wants you to grow, and abhors waste and death. Perhaps it sees you like a rose in a garden. Perhaps its an agent of some deeper level of existence you aren't privy to which would explain phenomenon like commonalities in near death experiences, or children that remember their past lives.
- rixed 2y ago
  I've met a few people with the same amazing optimism that you describe here and it always surprised me (thank you for that by the way, I understand it requires more nerve to display optimism than pessimism as the former is often associated with silliness whereas the later is more often seen as "sad but true"). This kind of reasoning feels like bad extrapolation : you consider humans 100k years ago and humans now, and you extrapolate ; sure enough, it looks like we are in a journey to become some abstract intelligence filling the universe. But if you take more samples in the so much longer history of life on earth, you will see that among all life forms that appeared and disappeared, human-like intelligence emerged only once, by accident. And it seems to me that the chaotic evolution of human civilization strongly suggest that it will also disappear accidentally. Natural selection does not select for that kind of intelligence. Awareness of the environment, yes ; good predictor of the near future changes of this environment, yes. But the creation of larger and larger organisms like a civilization that would evade Earth? I see no reason for that in theory and no evidence in practice.
  - 2y ago