4 ms·

> Are they being fined or imprisoned? No. Under this bar, everything Twitter and Facebook have done, and any meddling the government may have done in those eco

> Are they being fined or imprisoned? No. Under this bar, everything Twitter and Facebook have done, and any meddling the government may have done in those ecosystems, isn't a Free Speech Issue. Considering the very administration now taking this action called being banned from Twitter a violation of their free speech these look like some pretty mobile goalposts. > From my understanding, the definition of "The Press" is quite large and allows many entities, since it is impossible for all of them to be physically present there has to be a mechanism for deciding who is present and not. 100% true! But surely you can see how "does the government like your speech?" being part of that mechanism is clearly a Free Speech issue, even if you assume it is legal? Remember, this is the Government. It's not like it's Trump disinviting them from his house because they hurt his feelings.

themaninthedark 2y ago
>Under this bar, everything Twitter and Facebook have done, and any meddling the >government may have done in those ecosystems, isn't a Free Speech Issue. That was the majority position of the entire liberal establishment for the last decade. See: https://xkcd.com/1357/ https://xkcd.com/1357/ See also: "Freeze Peach" : https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/375bva/whats_freeze_peach_all_about/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/375bva/whats_... While my reply was rather curt in the beginning, I don't think this is a first amendment violation as it they have done nothing to restrict AP's access to information or publishing information, only from being in the room with the President. This sort of access control has been ongoing since at least the Obama administration: https://www.rcfp.org/white-house-attempted-shut-out-fox-news-reporter/ https://www.rcfp.org/white-house-attempted-shut-out-fox-news... and under Biden: https://www.dailysignal.com/2023/08/04/white-house-purges-442-reporters-using-new-press-credential-rules/ https://www.dailysignal.com/2023/08/04/white-house-purges-44...
- darkerside 2y ago
  XKCD is not the liberal establishment. The liberal establishment position has been much more fluid with the concept of free speech. There has been plenty of outrage over things like deadnaming, perceived racism, etc. > they have done nothing to restrict AP's access to information or publishing information, only from being in the room with the President Seems related
  - themaninthedark 2y ago
    No, XKCD is not the liberal establishment but is a good tell. You can search on that comic link in forum and see how it was being used. I do hope that you would consider the ACLU as liberal establishment. >But over the past ten years, Donald Trump and other right-wing provocateurs have co-opted free-speech values to advance an agenda often at odds with liberalism and social justice (see Elon Musk’s X), while Democrats, progressives, and, arguably, the ACLU have retreated from the ideal that free speech needs to be protected regardless of the viewpoint being expressed. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/the-free-speech-war-inside-the-aclu.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/the-free-speech-war-... And in case you don't like that source, here is the reference from the NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html And a choice quote: >Traditionally, the A.C.L.U.’s state affiliates monitor and argue free speech cases, but in recent years some shied from such fights.
    - darkerside 2y ago
      No, I wouldn't consider ACLU representative of the liberal establishment. There is certainly overlap at times, but they aren't driving policy and have a pretty specific charter. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Uni... Check out the support and opposition section.
      - themaninthedark 2y ago
        If you don't consider the ACLU as the liberal establishment w.r.t. free speech, who is it you do?
        darkerside 2y ago
        > liberal establishment w.r.t. free speech I don't think this term is meaningful. It begs the question to even claim that there _is_ a liberal establishment on the topic of free speech.

themaninthedark 2y ago

>Under this bar, everything Twitter and Facebook have done, and any meddling the >government may have done in those ecosystems, isn't a Free Speech Issue. That was the majority position of the entire liberal establishment for the last decade. See: https://xkcd.com/1357/ https://xkcd.com/1357/ See also: "Freeze Peach" : https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/375bva/whats_freeze_peach_all_about/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/375bva/whats_... While my reply was rather curt in the beginning, I don't think this is a first amendment violation as it they have done nothing to restrict AP's access to information or publishing information, only from being in the room with the President. This sort of access control has been ongoing since at least the Obama administration: https://www.rcfp.org/white-house-attempted-shut-out-fox-news-reporter/ https://www.rcfp.org/white-house-attempted-shut-out-fox-news... and under Biden: https://www.dailysignal.com/2023/08/04/white-house-purges-442-reporters-using-new-press-credential-rules/ https://www.dailysignal.com/2023/08/04/white-house-purges-44...

darkerside 2y ago
XKCD is not the liberal establishment. The liberal establishment position has been much more fluid with the concept of free speech. There has been plenty of outrage over things like deadnaming, perceived racism, etc. > they have done nothing to restrict AP's access to information or publishing information, only from being in the room with the President Seems related
- themaninthedark 2y ago
  No, XKCD is not the liberal establishment but is a good tell. You can search on that comic link in forum and see how it was being used. I do hope that you would consider the ACLU as liberal establishment. >But over the past ten years, Donald Trump and other right-wing provocateurs have co-opted free-speech values to advance an agenda often at odds with liberalism and social justice (see Elon Musk’s X), while Democrats, progressives, and, arguably, the ACLU have retreated from the ideal that free speech needs to be protected regardless of the viewpoint being expressed. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/the-free-speech-war-inside-the-aclu.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/the-free-speech-war-... And in case you don't like that source, here is the reference from the NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html And a choice quote: >Traditionally, the A.C.L.U.’s state affiliates monitor and argue free speech cases, but in recent years some shied from such fights.
  - darkerside 2y ago
    No, I wouldn't consider ACLU representative of the liberal establishment. There is certainly overlap at times, but they aren't driving policy and have a pretty specific charter. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Uni... Check out the support and opposition section.
    - themaninthedark 2y ago
      If you don't consider the ACLU as the liberal establishment w.r.t. free speech, who is it you do?
      - darkerside 2y ago
        > liberal establishment w.r.t. free speech I don't think this term is meaningful. It begs the question to even claim that there _is_ a liberal establishment on the topic of free speech.