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Watch Out of Spec for reviews of the latest Chinese EV tech including ADAS and battery swapping... https://outofspecstudios.com/ https://outofspecstudios.com/

Watch Out of Spec for reviews of the latest Chinese EV tech including ADAS and battery swapping... https://outofspecstudios.com/ https://outofspecstudios.com/ I was floored by what they are producing in China. It is a shame that these cars are not reaching more of the world and raising the competitive bar. I get the government subsidy and lower labor costs issues, but the tariffs are retarding competition, propping up prices, and hurting consumers.

judge2020 2y ago
Given their M/O is seemingly using indentured Uighur servants, it probably wouldn’t work economically here. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinese-workers-byd-brazil-factory-signed-contracts-with-abusive-clauses-2025-01-31/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chines...
- hnburnsy 2y ago
  Well at least we are protecting those automotive union jobs so that the average MSRP can top $50K.
  - tzs 2y ago
    Are we? Only about 16% of US auto workers are union. When states started offering incentives like big tax breaks to get auto makers to build factories outside of they often made those breaks contingent on the plants not being unionized. Those states also often had laws designed to make it much harder for unions to organize.
    - rangestransform 2y ago
      remember when biden tried to offer an increased EV tax credit for union built EVs shameless UAW vote buying
- 999900000999 2y ago
  Thank God we never do that here. >Intricate, invisible webs, just like this one, link some of the world’s largest food companies and most popular brands to jobs performed by U.S. prisoners nationwide, according to a sweeping two-year AP investigation into prison labor that tied hundreds of millions of dollars’ worth of agricultural products to goods sold on the open market. https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-investigation-c6f0eb4747963283316e494eadf08c4e https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-inve...
  - calvinmorrison 2y ago
    Tuquoque.
    - FireBeyond 2y ago
      Not really, if only because the OP specifically said "so it wouldn't work here". Not just whataboutism.
      - calvinmorrison 2y ago
        Tu che
- Freedom2 2y ago
  Isn't prison labor a large part of some town's economies? Sounds like it could work just fine, so your assertion is false.
- Mr-Frog 2y ago
  I read the article and while it definitely seems like visa abuse, I saw no reference to Uyghur people. I think you are conflating several issues here. Also the workers in that article are supposedly being paid very close to $7/hr, which is close to Brazil's median income.
- tzs 2y ago
  They've also got factories in Europe, South America, and a bunch of other countries. The cars from those factories aren't as inexpensive as the cars from the Chinese factories but they are still pretty low priced for the areas those factories are building for. They could probably build cars in one of those places that would be economically viable in the US if not for the tariffs, and would satisfy US labor sensibilities.
- suraci 2y ago
  i trust uyghur workers uyghur workers are same as other chinese workers, smart, hardworking, diligent, reliable, and they don't bring drugs to factory btw, we are all forced labor in the 'world factory', forced to work overtime and earn little, to serve the empire and its golden 1b people
999900000999 2y ago
Its all about milking Americans for more money. Without all the trade restrictions, you could buy a BYD EV for 10k. It's not the greatest car ever, but it would be a cool city car. Naw, better go and pay 40k for a worse American version. Temu is getting basically banned. It's not enough I pay around 40% of my income on in taxes and healthcare insurance, I now much pay higher prices for the same stuff on Amazon.
- bamboozled 2y ago
  It’s free market capitalism. At least they’re deleting the government. That should save you a few dollars, right ?
  - 999900000999 2y ago
    I'd actually be open to a libertarian government if that's what we got. If before firing thousands upon thousands of government workers, they say eliminated all income taxes on your first 100k, it would do something for the middle class. I really feel like US taxes are the worst of both worlds. They aren't much lower than in Europe where most(all?) countries have much cheaper if not free healthcare. A system where getting fired usually cuts off your health insurance sounds like a dystopian novel. Serious health issues have a tendency to stop you from working. No matter where in the world you go as a US citizen you still owe US taxes.
- michpoch 2y ago
  > Without all the trade restrictions, you could buy a BYD EV for 10k. No, you couldn’t. In Switzerland there are no EV trade restrictions and no, we do not have 10k BYDs. They cost roughly same as any other Western manufacturer.
- MangoCoffee 2y ago
  China is very good at mass production. Once they master the art, with the backing of the Chinese government, they can afford to lose money to gain market share. All U.S. car companies, including Tesla, would die if the U.S. allowed Chinese 10k car in. Hell, Obama didn’t let the auto industry die back in 2008. Can you imagine Trump, who said there would be a "bloodbath" in the auto industry without him—allowing a $10K Chinese car into the U.S. market?
al_hag 2y ago
What does it mean to say you get lower labor cost and government subsidy issues? Are you saying the tariffs are disproportionate to the impact of the subsidies? Temporary price distortions eliminate competition, not encourage it.
- hnburnsy 2y ago
  >lower labor cost and government subsidy issues These are the arguments in favor of tariffs on Chinese autos, I understand they cause a disparity, and yes, IMO they are disproportionate.
  - noizejoy 2y ago
    > IMO they are disproportionate. Typing the three letters in “IMO” is most certainly easier than doing/documenting complex financial analysis.
    - gruez 2y ago
      The EU might have done a careful calculation with their tarrifs, but the US's tariffs of 100% seems closer to a nice round number they thought sounded good than carefully thought out "proportionate" response to whatever the Chinese governments' subsidies were.
    - bee_rider 2y ago
      Lots of people don’t do the analysis and leave out the IMO, so at least this is more honest.
testfrequency 2y ago
Just an FYI, Kyle (owner of Out of Spec) is a complete narcissistic jerk who treats his girlfriend like complete crap. It was a pretty bad and uncomfortable pattern to watch unfold online, and many people unfollowed their work because of how awful his (and honestly a few of the others who contribute) attitude(s) are.
- hnburnsy 2y ago
  Don't know anything about that, but watching a 4 minute battery swap was pretty cool.
  - testfrequency 2y ago
    They do interesting deep dives and more thorough benchmarks in the EV space, which does stink to not be able to enjoy anymore..I just can’t in good faith support them.
    - hnburnsy 2y ago
      Thanks for the info, will keep it in mind.
- rcdemski 2y ago
  Any recommendations on where to read more about this? While his style never really engaged me, I never pegged him as being a terrible person.

judge2020 2y ago

Given their M/O is seemingly using indentured Uighur servants, it probably wouldn’t work economically here. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinese-workers-byd-brazil-factory-signed-contracts-with-abusive-clauses-2025-01-31/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chines...

hnburnsy 2y ago
Well at least we are protecting those automotive union jobs so that the average MSRP can top $50K.
- tzs 2y ago
  Are we? Only about 16% of US auto workers are union. When states started offering incentives like big tax breaks to get auto makers to build factories outside of they often made those breaks contingent on the plants not being unionized. Those states also often had laws designed to make it much harder for unions to organize.
  - rangestransform 2y ago
    remember when biden tried to offer an increased EV tax credit for union built EVs shameless UAW vote buying
999900000999 2y ago
Thank God we never do that here. >Intricate, invisible webs, just like this one, link some of the world’s largest food companies and most popular brands to jobs performed by U.S. prisoners nationwide, according to a sweeping two-year AP investigation into prison labor that tied hundreds of millions of dollars’ worth of agricultural products to goods sold on the open market. https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-investigation-c6f0eb4747963283316e494eadf08c4e https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-inve...
- calvinmorrison 2y ago
  Tuquoque.
  - FireBeyond 2y ago
    Not really, if only because the OP specifically said "so it wouldn't work here". Not just whataboutism.
    - calvinmorrison 2y ago
      Tu che
Freedom2 2y ago
Isn't prison labor a large part of some town's economies? Sounds like it could work just fine, so your assertion is false.
Mr-Frog 2y ago
I read the article and while it definitely seems like visa abuse, I saw no reference to Uyghur people. I think you are conflating several issues here. Also the workers in that article are supposedly being paid very close to $7/hr, which is close to Brazil's median income.
tzs 2y ago
They've also got factories in Europe, South America, and a bunch of other countries. The cars from those factories aren't as inexpensive as the cars from the Chinese factories but they are still pretty low priced for the areas those factories are building for. They could probably build cars in one of those places that would be economically viable in the US if not for the tariffs, and would satisfy US labor sensibilities.
suraci 2y ago
i trust uyghur workers uyghur workers are same as other chinese workers, smart, hardworking, diligent, reliable, and they don't bring drugs to factory btw, we are all forced labor in the 'world factory', forced to work overtime and earn little, to serve the empire and its golden 1b people

999900000999 2y ago

Its all about milking Americans for more money. Without all the trade restrictions, you could buy a BYD EV for 10k. It's not the greatest car ever, but it would be a cool city car. Naw, better go and pay 40k for a worse American version. Temu is getting basically banned. It's not enough I pay around 40% of my income on in taxes and healthcare insurance, I now much pay higher prices for the same stuff on Amazon.

bamboozled 2y ago
It’s free market capitalism. At least they’re deleting the government. That should save you a few dollars, right ?
- 999900000999 2y ago
  I'd actually be open to a libertarian government if that's what we got. If before firing thousands upon thousands of government workers, they say eliminated all income taxes on your first 100k, it would do something for the middle class. I really feel like US taxes are the worst of both worlds. They aren't much lower than in Europe where most(all?) countries have much cheaper if not free healthcare. A system where getting fired usually cuts off your health insurance sounds like a dystopian novel. Serious health issues have a tendency to stop you from working. No matter where in the world you go as a US citizen you still owe US taxes.
michpoch 2y ago
> Without all the trade restrictions, you could buy a BYD EV for 10k. No, you couldn’t. In Switzerland there are no EV trade restrictions and no, we do not have 10k BYDs. They cost roughly same as any other Western manufacturer.
MangoCoffee 2y ago
China is very good at mass production. Once they master the art, with the backing of the Chinese government, they can afford to lose money to gain market share. All U.S. car companies, including Tesla, would die if the U.S. allowed Chinese 10k car in. Hell, Obama didn’t let the auto industry die back in 2008. Can you imagine Trump, who said there would be a "bloodbath" in the auto industry without him—allowing a $10K Chinese car into the U.S. market?

al_hag 2y ago

What does it mean to say you get lower labor cost and government subsidy issues? Are you saying the tariffs are disproportionate to the impact of the subsidies? Temporary price distortions eliminate competition, not encourage it.

hnburnsy 2y ago
>lower labor cost and government subsidy issues These are the arguments in favor of tariffs on Chinese autos, I understand they cause a disparity, and yes, IMO they are disproportionate.
- noizejoy 2y ago
  > IMO they are disproportionate. Typing the three letters in “IMO” is most certainly easier than doing/documenting complex financial analysis.
  - gruez 2y ago
    The EU might have done a careful calculation with their tarrifs, but the US's tariffs of 100% seems closer to a nice round number they thought sounded good than carefully thought out "proportionate" response to whatever the Chinese governments' subsidies were.
  - bee_rider 2y ago
    Lots of people don’t do the analysis and leave out the IMO, so at least this is more honest.

testfrequency 2y ago

Just an FYI, Kyle (owner of Out of Spec) is a complete narcissistic jerk who treats his girlfriend like complete crap. It was a pretty bad and uncomfortable pattern to watch unfold online, and many people unfollowed their work because of how awful his (and honestly a few of the others who contribute) attitude(s) are.

hnburnsy 2y ago
Don't know anything about that, but watching a 4 minute battery swap was pretty cool.
- testfrequency 2y ago
  They do interesting deep dives and more thorough benchmarks in the EV space, which does stink to not be able to enjoy anymore..I just can’t in good faith support them.
  - hnburnsy 2y ago
    Thanks for the info, will keep it in mind.
rcdemski 2y ago
Any recommendations on where to read more about this? While his style never really engaged me, I never pegged him as being a terrible person.