6 ms·

As much as I hate Musk, this brings a tear to my eyes seeing these disabled people regain autonomy and feel like a person again.

the_optimist 2y ago
[flagged]
- joseppudev 2y ago
  [dead]
- walrus01 2y ago
  At this point it would be much less effort to make a short list of the unquestionably good things he has done or is well known for, rather than attempting to list all of the despicable things he is recently associated with.
  - cubefox 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - Veserv 2y ago
      Well for one we can look to Diaz v. Tesla [1] where Tesla was found guilty of pervasive racism at the Tesla Fremont Factory in California: Pervasive usage of racial slurs by management: "Robert Hurtado, a supervisor at Tesla, called Diaz the N-word over 30 times, including by saying "[N-word], hurry up," "[N-words] are lazy," and "I wish I can get all you [N-words] fired." Tr. 3:604:23-606:8. Ramon Martinez, another Tesla supervisor, called Diaz the N-word over thirty times, said "I hate you, [N-word]," and told him "to go back to Africa." Tr. 3-603:11-604:20. Diaz's supervisor, Tamotsu "Tom" Kawasaki, testified that Martinez often used the words "mayate" and "chongo," both racial slurs in Spanish. Tr. 2-281:9-12." Burying complaints of proven racism and reprimanding the person bringing the complaint of racism: "Diaz testified that at one point, Martinez threatened to physically attack him at work and yelled at him, "You [N-words] aren't S-H-I-T." Tr. 3-610:2-612:7. Diaz complained to a supervisor, Ed Romero, and asked him to check the surveillance cameras, though Diaz's subsequent email complaint did not specifically mention racial insults. Tr. 3-612:8-614:23; see also Tr. 3-546:25-548:2 (Romero confirming this was recounted in an email). Tesla did not follow up, show Diaz the video, or interview witnesses after that event. Tr. 3-546:25-548:2, 612:8-614:23. Jackson testified that he interviewed Diaz and Martinez after the incident but did not interview the eyewitness, Rothaj Foster, because he was told by his boss to stop the investigation before it was complete. Tr. 2-387:10-390:18, 2-394:24-395:11. Jackson said he had "[v]ery little" control over how he investigated complaints. Tr. 2-396:8-397:12. Jackie Delgado Smith, a Human Resources representative, testified that Tesla HR was never told of the incident. Tr. 5-954:15-955:6. Subsequently, Diaz and Martinez were both given verbal warnings. Tr. 2-395:21-396:7. Martinez still works at Tesla. Tr. 3-571:11." Regular presence of objectively racist symbols in workplace facilities: "In addition to verbal harassment, Diaz encountered physical symbols of racism and hostility throughout his time at Tesla. On his second day at work, he saw racist graffiti in the bathroom, and continued to see the N-word and swastikas in bathrooms throughout the rest of his employment. Tr. 3-623:1-8. Another Black employee and later supervisor, Michael Wheeler, testified that he regularly saw racist graffiti, including the N-word and swastikas, and that Diaz reported the racist graffiti he saw to Wheeler. Tr. 2-346:17-347:17." [1] https://casetext.com/case/diaz-v-tesla-inc-7 https://casetext.com/case/diaz-v-tesla-inc-7
    - jbnorth 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - soVeryTired 2y ago
      You say "wrong political party" as if he's involved in some mild political spat. The Financial Times just ran an article about how trump might defy the supreme court on his way to burning down the republic. Musk supported AFD while tweeting about the great replacement and throwing a nazi salute. He's supporting the wrong political party in much the same way Goebbels supported the wrong party.
      - cubefox 2y ago
        > The Financial Times just ran an article about how trump might defy the supreme court on his way to burning down the republic. But that is arguably a mixture between conjecture and hyperbole which would not be surprising from a newspaper that is clearly quite left-wing and often aims to make right-wing people look bad. It's like a right-wing newspaper writing an alarmist piece about Kamala Harris. Would you expect a fair appraisal? > Musk supported AFD while tweeting about the great replacement and throwing a nazi salute. He's supporting the wrong political party in much the same way Goebbels supported the wrong party. So what he actually does is he supports two parties which are against low-skilled immigration. A position which is completely mainstream in countries like Japan, Norway or Switzerland. Comparing that to literal Goebbels is trivializing the actual Nazi crimes.
        Philpax 2y ago
        The Financial Times is "quite left-wing"? Really? It's certainly not Jacobin! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_Times#Editorial_stance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_Times#Editorial_stan...
        cubefox 2y ago
        I meant pro-Democrats, which is a different kind of left-wing.
        walrus01 2y ago
        I have to admit I had a good laugh at that, "oh yes, very good point, well known extreme left wing marxist-leninists, The Financial Times...". Not to be confused with well known leftists The Wall Street Journal.
  - concordDance 2y ago
    I'm quite curious if someone has gone to the effort of making a full list of all the things fommonly thought of as pros and cons and made it available somewhere... would be interesting.
- TheMiddleMan 2y ago
  Not everyone has the precise same definition of hate, and you know what they ^ mean. Elon used to be all about truly advancing society, now he only seems interested in gaining wealth and power.
  - vermilingua 2y ago
    Elon used to appear to be all about truly advancing society; his motivations haven't changed, his PR strategy has.
    - TheMiddleMan 2y ago
      You might be right but consider these old talks: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species (2016) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7Uyfqi_TE8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7Uyfqi_TE8 Elon Musk talks Climate Change and Carbon Tax at the Sorbone 2015 https://youtu.be/sUFwwlmxRsw?t=978 https://youtu.be/sUFwwlmxRsw?t=978 It could be that he was just following the trends knowing there was money to be made, but I detect some real passion back in these videos. Of course no motivation comes from a single source and there's some mix of philanthropy and money driving this, among other motivations. Either way his tone has changed a lot, to say the least.
- soVeryTired 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - losvedir 2y ago
    I think people who (still) support him don't think it was a sieg heil, and just chalk it up as an awkward gesture. Personally, I can't imagine why he would throw one, so a priori it seems like an unlikely gesture, though I admit it's strange what he does in the video I saw. The most awkward part of it is the beginning of the gesture where he clutches his chest like he's having a heart attack. I've tried searching for what a sieg heil actually looks like and had a hard time finding videos on YouTube, but I don't think grabbing the chest is part of it, right? Can someone clarify what the gesture really is? The couple I saw from Hitler were just a swift raising of the hand from the waist.
    - SrslyJosh 2y ago
      An "awkward gesture" that has no other meaning in western culture. Which he made twice. It's not something you can do by accident. > I can't imagine why he would throw one That's pretty naive. He's a white south african who recently said that Germany's furthest-right party should "get over" being guilty about what the nazis did.
      - roenxi 2y ago
        It appears it is something one can do by accident; Musk did. We seem to have here an accusation by insinuation that Musk is adhering to an ideology which he clearly does not hold. It isn't obvious what the anti-Muskians want done about this. It puts me in mind of when people were calling Trump a liar while he was on campaign - apparently unaware that he was running for political office! I suppose in the end when Mexico didn't pay for the wall they felt a sense of vindication. I can understand partisan politics, but this is just sillyness. Can there at least be actionable accusations made?
        defrost 2y ago
        Faulty logic that presupposes Musk made a nazi salute by accident to then evidence that as proof that one can do so by accident. As for his ideology; Musk boosts many far right comments and addressed a rally of the German far-right AfD party, just before Holocaust Remembrance Day, telling them that Germany should get over "past guilt." Both his grandfathers were proudly outspoken pro-apartheid, antisemitic public figures. It's how he was raised.
rezmason 2y ago
As much as I like regaining autonomy, we should hold back those tears until a patient's implant outlasts a product cycle. I can't find the article to link to, but there's an ongoing issue with tech companies producing assistive devices or prosthetics and obsoleting them when the company pivots, gets bought or goes under. Corporate cyborg parts are an already-predicted nightmare, already taking place, unfolding in slow motion, and soon it will breach the sanctity of human thought.
- blacksmith_tb 2y ago
  I think that would be these eye implants[1]. 1: https://spectrum.ieee.org/bionic-eye-obsolete https://spectrum.ieee.org/bionic-eye-obsolete
- llm_trw 2y ago
  The simple solution is that all such devices must be submitted to a central government database and all blue prints, source code etc. will be released into the public domain is the company no longer supports the device or closes down.
  - javcasas 2y ago
    We don't want to be political here. So, what do we do first? Propose a political solution. We all know how this is going to end, there have been more than enough cyberpunk videogames and novels for us all to read.
    - llm_trw 2y ago
      All regulations are political. I'm not sure what you think the issue here is.
  - kvdveer 2y ago
    I'm pretty confident that anything involving a central government database won't really fly under the current political climate. Definitely not in the US, but many other countries are bowing to US pressure to limit regulation.
sussmannbaka 2y ago
The same disabled people whose hard earned rights are on the chopping block right now in the name of anti wokeness? I’ll say, taking away their ability to participate in society first, then selling it back to the richest of them is an ingenious business approach.
- andsoitis 2y ago
  > taking away their ability to participate in society first, then selling it back to the richest of them is an ingenious business approach. That's not what is happening here. These tools (Neuralink and others) enable people who are disabled to participate more in society.
  - croes 2y ago
    But it won’t help get them a job because DEI is bad.
    - bufferoverflow 2y ago
      Nobody prevents them from getting a job, as long as they pass the interview like everyone else.
      - computerthings 2y ago
        So yes. Throwing out the vulnerable onto the streets, to promise a future where those who can afford it can be made to function as good as healthy people, to earn their human rights and dignity with cold hard cash, like everyone else. The rest, who cares... they don't have a voice even while they live, so nobody will ask about them when they no longer do.
      - croes 2y ago
        Yeah sure, because having a disability, the wrong skin color or wrong gender was never the reason for not getting hired.

the_optimist 2y ago

[flagged]

joseppudev 2y ago
[dead]
walrus01 2y ago
At this point it would be much less effort to make a short list of the unquestionably good things he has done or is well known for, rather than attempting to list all of the despicable things he is recently associated with.
- cubefox 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - Veserv 2y ago
    Well for one we can look to Diaz v. Tesla [1] where Tesla was found guilty of pervasive racism at the Tesla Fremont Factory in California: Pervasive usage of racial slurs by management: "Robert Hurtado, a supervisor at Tesla, called Diaz the N-word over 30 times, including by saying "[N-word], hurry up," "[N-words] are lazy," and "I wish I can get all you [N-words] fired." Tr. 3:604:23-606:8. Ramon Martinez, another Tesla supervisor, called Diaz the N-word over thirty times, said "I hate you, [N-word]," and told him "to go back to Africa." Tr. 3-603:11-604:20. Diaz's supervisor, Tamotsu "Tom" Kawasaki, testified that Martinez often used the words "mayate" and "chongo," both racial slurs in Spanish. Tr. 2-281:9-12." Burying complaints of proven racism and reprimanding the person bringing the complaint of racism: "Diaz testified that at one point, Martinez threatened to physically attack him at work and yelled at him, "You [N-words] aren't S-H-I-T." Tr. 3-610:2-612:7. Diaz complained to a supervisor, Ed Romero, and asked him to check the surveillance cameras, though Diaz's subsequent email complaint did not specifically mention racial insults. Tr. 3-612:8-614:23; see also Tr. 3-546:25-548:2 (Romero confirming this was recounted in an email). Tesla did not follow up, show Diaz the video, or interview witnesses after that event. Tr. 3-546:25-548:2, 612:8-614:23. Jackson testified that he interviewed Diaz and Martinez after the incident but did not interview the eyewitness, Rothaj Foster, because he was told by his boss to stop the investigation before it was complete. Tr. 2-387:10-390:18, 2-394:24-395:11. Jackson said he had "[v]ery little" control over how he investigated complaints. Tr. 2-396:8-397:12. Jackie Delgado Smith, a Human Resources representative, testified that Tesla HR was never told of the incident. Tr. 5-954:15-955:6. Subsequently, Diaz and Martinez were both given verbal warnings. Tr. 2-395:21-396:7. Martinez still works at Tesla. Tr. 3-571:11." Regular presence of objectively racist symbols in workplace facilities: "In addition to verbal harassment, Diaz encountered physical symbols of racism and hostility throughout his time at Tesla. On his second day at work, he saw racist graffiti in the bathroom, and continued to see the N-word and swastikas in bathrooms throughout the rest of his employment. Tr. 3-623:1-8. Another Black employee and later supervisor, Michael Wheeler, testified that he regularly saw racist graffiti, including the N-word and swastikas, and that Diaz reported the racist graffiti he saw to Wheeler. Tr. 2-346:17-347:17." [1] https://casetext.com/case/diaz-v-tesla-inc-7 https://casetext.com/case/diaz-v-tesla-inc-7
  - jbnorth 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - soVeryTired 2y ago
    You say "wrong political party" as if he's involved in some mild political spat. The Financial Times just ran an article about how trump might defy the supreme court on his way to burning down the republic. Musk supported AFD while tweeting about the great replacement and throwing a nazi salute. He's supporting the wrong political party in much the same way Goebbels supported the wrong party.
    - cubefox 2y ago
      > The Financial Times just ran an article about how trump might defy the supreme court on his way to burning down the republic. But that is arguably a mixture between conjecture and hyperbole which would not be surprising from a newspaper that is clearly quite left-wing and often aims to make right-wing people look bad. It's like a right-wing newspaper writing an alarmist piece about Kamala Harris. Would you expect a fair appraisal? > Musk supported AFD while tweeting about the great replacement and throwing a nazi salute. He's supporting the wrong political party in much the same way Goebbels supported the wrong party. So what he actually does is he supports two parties which are against low-skilled immigration. A position which is completely mainstream in countries like Japan, Norway or Switzerland. Comparing that to literal Goebbels is trivializing the actual Nazi crimes.
      - Philpax 2y ago
        The Financial Times is "quite left-wing"? Really? It's certainly not Jacobin! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_Times#Editorial_stance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_Times#Editorial_stan...
        cubefox 2y ago
        I meant pro-Democrats, which is a different kind of left-wing.
        walrus01 2y ago
        I have to admit I had a good laugh at that, "oh yes, very good point, well known extreme left wing marxist-leninists, The Financial Times...". Not to be confused with well known leftists The Wall Street Journal.
- concordDance 2y ago
  I'm quite curious if someone has gone to the effort of making a full list of all the things fommonly thought of as pros and cons and made it available somewhere... would be interesting.
TheMiddleMan 2y ago
Not everyone has the precise same definition of hate, and you know what they ^ mean. Elon used to be all about truly advancing society, now he only seems interested in gaining wealth and power.
- vermilingua 2y ago
  Elon used to appear to be all about truly advancing society; his motivations haven't changed, his PR strategy has.
  - TheMiddleMan 2y ago
    You might be right but consider these old talks: Making Humans a Multiplanetary Species (2016) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7Uyfqi_TE8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7Uyfqi_TE8 Elon Musk talks Climate Change and Carbon Tax at the Sorbone 2015 https://youtu.be/sUFwwlmxRsw?t=978 https://youtu.be/sUFwwlmxRsw?t=978 It could be that he was just following the trends knowing there was money to be made, but I detect some real passion back in these videos. Of course no motivation comes from a single source and there's some mix of philanthropy and money driving this, among other motivations. Either way his tone has changed a lot, to say the least.
soVeryTired 2y ago
[flagged]
- losvedir 2y ago
  I think people who (still) support him don't think it was a sieg heil, and just chalk it up as an awkward gesture. Personally, I can't imagine why he would throw one, so a priori it seems like an unlikely gesture, though I admit it's strange what he does in the video I saw. The most awkward part of it is the beginning of the gesture where he clutches his chest like he's having a heart attack. I've tried searching for what a sieg heil actually looks like and had a hard time finding videos on YouTube, but I don't think grabbing the chest is part of it, right? Can someone clarify what the gesture really is? The couple I saw from Hitler were just a swift raising of the hand from the waist.
  - SrslyJosh 2y ago
    An "awkward gesture" that has no other meaning in western culture. Which he made twice. It's not something you can do by accident. > I can't imagine why he would throw one That's pretty naive. He's a white south african who recently said that Germany's furthest-right party should "get over" being guilty about what the nazis did.
    - roenxi 2y ago
      It appears it is something one can do by accident; Musk did. We seem to have here an accusation by insinuation that Musk is adhering to an ideology which he clearly does not hold. It isn't obvious what the anti-Muskians want done about this. It puts me in mind of when people were calling Trump a liar while he was on campaign - apparently unaware that he was running for political office! I suppose in the end when Mexico didn't pay for the wall they felt a sense of vindication. I can understand partisan politics, but this is just sillyness. Can there at least be actionable accusations made?
      - defrost 2y ago
        Faulty logic that presupposes Musk made a nazi salute by accident to then evidence that as proof that one can do so by accident. As for his ideology; Musk boosts many far right comments and addressed a rally of the German far-right AfD party, just before Holocaust Remembrance Day, telling them that Germany should get over "past guilt." Both his grandfathers were proudly outspoken pro-apartheid, antisemitic public figures. It's how he was raised.

rezmason 2y ago

As much as I like regaining autonomy, we should hold back those tears until a patient's implant outlasts a product cycle. I can't find the article to link to, but there's an ongoing issue with tech companies producing assistive devices or prosthetics and obsoleting them when the company pivots, gets bought or goes under. Corporate cyborg parts are an already-predicted nightmare, already taking place, unfolding in slow motion, and soon it will breach the sanctity of human thought.

blacksmith_tb 2y ago
I think that would be these eye implants[1]. 1: https://spectrum.ieee.org/bionic-eye-obsolete https://spectrum.ieee.org/bionic-eye-obsolete
llm_trw 2y ago
The simple solution is that all such devices must be submitted to a central government database and all blue prints, source code etc. will be released into the public domain is the company no longer supports the device or closes down.
- javcasas 2y ago
  We don't want to be political here. So, what do we do first? Propose a political solution. We all know how this is going to end, there have been more than enough cyberpunk videogames and novels for us all to read.
  - llm_trw 2y ago
    All regulations are political. I'm not sure what you think the issue here is.
- kvdveer 2y ago
  I'm pretty confident that anything involving a central government database won't really fly under the current political climate. Definitely not in the US, but many other countries are bowing to US pressure to limit regulation.

sussmannbaka 2y ago

The same disabled people whose hard earned rights are on the chopping block right now in the name of anti wokeness? I’ll say, taking away their ability to participate in society first, then selling it back to the richest of them is an ingenious business approach.

andsoitis 2y ago
> taking away their ability to participate in society first, then selling it back to the richest of them is an ingenious business approach. That's not what is happening here. These tools (Neuralink and others) enable people who are disabled to participate more in society.
- croes 2y ago
  But it won’t help get them a job because DEI is bad.
  - bufferoverflow 2y ago
    Nobody prevents them from getting a job, as long as they pass the interview like everyone else.
    - computerthings 2y ago
      So yes. Throwing out the vulnerable onto the streets, to promise a future where those who can afford it can be made to function as good as healthy people, to earn their human rights and dignity with cold hard cash, like everyone else. The rest, who cares... they don't have a voice even while they live, so nobody will ask about them when they no longer do.
    - croes 2y ago
      Yeah sure, because having a disability, the wrong skin color or wrong gender was never the reason for not getting hired.