6 ms·

My 1997 Lexus has a knob that controls the digital climate control. Except that instead of a spinny position encoder, they used a knob with stops so you have ta

My 1997 Lexus has a knob that controls the digital climate control. Except that instead of a spinny position encoder, they used a knob with stops so you have tactile feedback for when the temperature is all the way up or down. This is the kind of detail that I love about a well engineered car.

DigitalSea 2y ago
My 2004 5 series BMW had this (it was called iDrive). A command style knob that could move on an axis of sorts (up and down, left, right). You could also press it in. I absolutely hated it.
- CRConrad 2y ago
  That was among the first generations of iDrive. I was (and to some extent still am) skeptical, particularly given how overwhelmingly negative the reception was at the time. But, FWIW, the motoring press was later – as BMW apparently improved the system significantly – swayed to accept, and sometimes even praise, the iDrive. At least from about 2015-20, or possibly as early as 2010-15. Can't give any personal evaluation, as I've never (AFAICR) driven a BMW.
  - Royce-CMR 2y ago
    Small review, 2013 BMW 335xi (drove for a test drive). Loved iDrive. Remained my benchmark for car infotainment UI for 10+ years. The main thing, you could DRVIE the car, aggressively, and give commands to infotainment without missing a beat. Truly a lost art today. Fond memories.
    - getlawgdon 2y ago
      Aggressive BMW driver. You don't say.
  - Hamuko 2y ago
    The first iDrive version was CCC, and it was reviled back then and is still currently. I think the opinion shift happened with the CIC version, which started rolling out at around 2009 and had a massively different user interface. And you can tell that CIC was a much better system since the next version introduced around 2013, NBT, only tweaked the CIC UI instead of completely replacing it.
- rad_gruchalski 2y ago
  They have removed it in their newest models. They have truly lost their minds at BMW. Everything on the touch screen and the panel that housed all tactile buttons how now one big led strip. Truly dumb design and a ton of wasted space.
gertlex 2y ago
Curious if I am missing a detail: It sounds like a knob with endstops, incremental notches for a finite number of positions between the endstops, and probably a spinny position encoder underneath it? (this also describes my 2009 saturn; I think; unsure, but that's a good sign: I don't look at/think about this knob conciously!)
- dghlsakjg 2y ago
  That's all, you got it. Its just a nice touch that was pretty clearly done by someone who had a very good grasp of intuitive human interfaces.
rkagerer 2y ago
That's how all knobs used to work. Those were good times.
nottorp 2y ago
That's how the knobs normally work. And the original poster describes how "automatic a/c" or "climate controls" have always worked in cars, you set a target temp and they handle fan speed and air temperature. Why does the article want to make a multifunction dial with no tactile feedback? Have they only ever driven a Tesla?
- rahoulb 2y ago
  There's a whole section in the article about experimenting with different positions and weights of the haptic feedback as the dial is moved and how to tie them in to the display on the control itself.
  - nottorp 2y ago
    Yes. But how about a dial that stops turning at the minimum and maximum and doesn't need you to take your eyes away from the road at all? So last century eh? Maybe also less life threatening.
    - yellowapple 2y ago
      > But how about a dial that stops turning at the minimum and maximum That, too, is mentioned in the article ("This means you can simulate different types of haptic feedback, like different detent strengths and hard stops."). > and doesn't need you to take your eyes away from the road at all? Also addressed in the article ("Showing three different data types in one dial is possible but definitely the maximum. When adding a fourth function, keeping track of your position in the interface without looking down becomes too difficult.").
- arkh 2y ago
  > you set a target temp You should be able to set 2 temps. Early morning in summer: temperature is under 15°C, no need to heat over 20°C. Evening: outside is 30°C, I don't need 20°C in the car anymore but 25ish would be perfect. A 2 temperatures setting or 1 temperature + delta would prevent having to change it every time I enter the car.

DigitalSea 2y ago

My 2004 5 series BMW had this (it was called iDrive). A command style knob that could move on an axis of sorts (up and down, left, right). You could also press it in. I absolutely hated it.

CRConrad 2y ago
That was among the first generations of iDrive. I was (and to some extent still am) skeptical, particularly given how overwhelmingly negative the reception was at the time. But, FWIW, the motoring press was later – as BMW apparently improved the system significantly – swayed to accept, and sometimes even praise, the iDrive. At least from about 2015-20, or possibly as early as 2010-15. Can't give any personal evaluation, as I've never (AFAICR) driven a BMW.
- Royce-CMR 2y ago
  Small review, 2013 BMW 335xi (drove for a test drive). Loved iDrive. Remained my benchmark for car infotainment UI for 10+ years. The main thing, you could DRVIE the car, aggressively, and give commands to infotainment without missing a beat. Truly a lost art today. Fond memories.
  - getlawgdon 2y ago
    Aggressive BMW driver. You don't say.
- Hamuko 2y ago
  The first iDrive version was CCC, and it was reviled back then and is still currently. I think the opinion shift happened with the CIC version, which started rolling out at around 2009 and had a massively different user interface. And you can tell that CIC was a much better system since the next version introduced around 2013, NBT, only tweaked the CIC UI instead of completely replacing it.
rad_gruchalski 2y ago
They have removed it in their newest models. They have truly lost their minds at BMW. Everything on the touch screen and the panel that housed all tactile buttons how now one big led strip. Truly dumb design and a ton of wasted space.

gertlex 2y ago

Curious if I am missing a detail: It sounds like a knob with endstops, incremental notches for a finite number of positions between the endstops, and probably a spinny position encoder underneath it? (this also describes my 2009 saturn; I think; unsure, but that's a good sign: I don't look at/think about this knob conciously!)

dghlsakjg 2y ago
That's all, you got it. Its just a nice touch that was pretty clearly done by someone who had a very good grasp of intuitive human interfaces.

rkagerer 2y ago

That's how all knobs used to work. Those were good times.

nottorp 2y ago

That's how the knobs normally work. And the original poster describes how "automatic a/c" or "climate controls" have always worked in cars, you set a target temp and they handle fan speed and air temperature. Why does the article want to make a multifunction dial with no tactile feedback? Have they only ever driven a Tesla?

rahoulb 2y ago
There's a whole section in the article about experimenting with different positions and weights of the haptic feedback as the dial is moved and how to tie them in to the display on the control itself.
- nottorp 2y ago
  Yes. But how about a dial that stops turning at the minimum and maximum and doesn't need you to take your eyes away from the road at all? So last century eh? Maybe also less life threatening.
  - yellowapple 2y ago
    > But how about a dial that stops turning at the minimum and maximum That, too, is mentioned in the article ("This means you can simulate different types of haptic feedback, like different detent strengths and hard stops."). > and doesn't need you to take your eyes away from the road at all? Also addressed in the article ("Showing three different data types in one dial is possible but definitely the maximum. When adding a fourth function, keeping track of your position in the interface without looking down becomes too difficult.").
arkh 2y ago
> you set a target temp You should be able to set 2 temps. Early morning in summer: temperature is under 15°C, no need to heat over 20°C. Evening: outside is 30°C, I don't need 20°C in the car anymore but 25ish would be perfect. A 2 temperatures setting or 1 temperature + delta would prevent having to change it every time I enter the car.