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This answer seems like a big spin: > Is Rust for Linux driven by the "Rust community"? > No, the people involved around Rust for Linux come from different bac

This answer seems like a big spin: > Is Rust for Linux driven by the "Rust community"? > No, the people involved around Rust for Linux come from different backgrounds and organizations. Some are kernel maintainers, some are Rust experts. Some are hobbyists, some are employees at large corporations > Particularly, it is not an effort driven by the Rust Project nor the Rust Foundation. In fact, Rust for Linux was founded by a Linux kernel maintainer as a hobby, it is not an effort driven by the Rust Project nor the Rust Foundation. In fact, Rust for Linux was founded by a Linux kernel maintainer as a hobby The Rust Project says R4L is a “flagship” goal: https://rust-lang.github.io/rust-project-goals/2024h2/goals.html https://rust-lang.github.io/rust-project-goals/2024h2/goals.... I recall Josh Triplett saying R4L was a big priority for Rust this year; he pledged his support. Also, didn’t the author of this updated doc (Miguel Ojeda[1]) resign from R4L? I’m not sure what his role is here. Edit: [1] see https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/CANiq72m-R0tOakf=j7BZ78jDHdy=9-fvZbAT8j91Je2Bxy0sFg@mail.gmail.com/?ref=news.itsfoss.com https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/CANiq72m-R0tOakf=j7BZ...

sundarurfriend 2y ago
> Wait a second, that’s not what this page says: https://rust-lang.github.io/rust-project-goals/2024h2/goals https://rust-lang.github.io/rust-project-goals/2024h2/goals.... I don't understand what you're saying - is your point that having Goals means that this can no longer be considered a hobby? Lots of people have hobbies where they have goals for a sense of direction and satisfaction. (Not to mention that the page doesn't say it is a hobby, just that it was started as one.) > Also, didn’t the author resign from this effort before? Or was that departure not as dramatic as I recall. Who do you mean by "the author" here? This seems to be a group effort by a "Rust for Linux" group, not a single individual.
- deleted 2y ago
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- hitekker 2y ago
  Hey, good catch. I edited my comment to be clearer.
  - sundarurfriend 2y ago
    That makes it much clearer, thanks. There might be some quibbling over the wording of the goal and whether this technically counts as RFL being driven by the Rust Project, but the goal page [1] is at the very least a clear statement of the incentives they have to push for RFL, in their own words. [1] https://rust-lang.github.io/rust-project-goals/2024h2/rfl_stable.html https://rust-lang.github.io/rust-project-goals/2024h2/rfl_st...
ojeda 2y ago
> The Rust Project says R4L is a “flagship” goal Rust's 2024H2 and 2025H1 flagship goals are about getting Rust for Linux into stable Rust, implementing features we need and so on. We really appreciate being a flagship goal of theirs! We collaborate regularly, and some members are part of both projects, and so on and so forth. But that does not mean one is driven by the other, just like GCC and Clang do not drive the Linux kernel because they introduced features to build it. They support us, which is different. > Also, didn’t the author of this updated doc (Miguel Ojeda[1]) resign from R4L? I’m not sure what his role is here. I wrote the document, but I never resigned since I started the project -- you are probably referring to Wedson. I have seen articles that confused both of us in the past, so that is not a surprise, though I wouldn't mind to have Wedson's mind around from time to time :) The FOSDEM 2025 keynote has some details about the history of the project. There is an LWN article about it: https://lwn.net/Articles/1007921/ https://lwn.net/Articles/1007921/ I hope that clarifies.
JoshTriplett 2y ago
As Miguel said, the commitment from the Rust project is making Rust for Linux build on stable Rust, rather than using nightly. We care about that for a variety of reasons: we don't want folks to get a negative impression of Rust's stability based on nightly Rust, and Rust for Linux is a good exemplar of projects needing certain features, and it's an important effort in its own right that demonstrates the ability to incrementally add Rust to an established project. It's up to the awesome Rust for Linux folks to work on the integration and upstreaming and policy needed to ship the kernel with Rust. And they're doing incredible work, based on the ability to write more and more kinds of drivers/filesystems/etc in Rust.

sundarurfriend 2y ago

> Wait a second, that’s not what this page says: https://rust-lang.github.io/rust-project-goals/2024h2/goals https://rust-lang.github.io/rust-project-goals/2024h2/goals.... I don't understand what you're saying - is your point that having Goals means that this can no longer be considered a hobby? Lots of people have hobbies where they have goals for a sense of direction and satisfaction. (Not to mention that the page doesn't say it is a hobby, just that it was started as one.) > Also, didn’t the author resign from this effort before? Or was that departure not as dramatic as I recall. Who do you mean by "the author" here? This seems to be a group effort by a "Rust for Linux" group, not a single individual.

deleted 2y ago
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hitekker 2y ago
Hey, good catch. I edited my comment to be clearer.
- sundarurfriend 2y ago
  That makes it much clearer, thanks. There might be some quibbling over the wording of the goal and whether this technically counts as RFL being driven by the Rust Project, but the goal page [1] is at the very least a clear statement of the incentives they have to push for RFL, in their own words. [1] https://rust-lang.github.io/rust-project-goals/2024h2/rfl_stable.html https://rust-lang.github.io/rust-project-goals/2024h2/rfl_st...

ojeda 2y ago

> The Rust Project says R4L is a “flagship” goal Rust's 2024H2 and 2025H1 flagship goals are about getting Rust for Linux into stable Rust, implementing features we need and so on. We really appreciate being a flagship goal of theirs! We collaborate regularly, and some members are part of both projects, and so on and so forth. But that does not mean one is driven by the other, just like GCC and Clang do not drive the Linux kernel because they introduced features to build it. They support us, which is different. > Also, didn’t the author of this updated doc (Miguel Ojeda[1]) resign from R4L? I’m not sure what his role is here. I wrote the document, but I never resigned since I started the project -- you are probably referring to Wedson. I have seen articles that confused both of us in the past, so that is not a surprise, though I wouldn't mind to have Wedson's mind around from time to time :) The FOSDEM 2025 keynote has some details about the history of the project. There is an LWN article about it: https://lwn.net/Articles/1007921/ https://lwn.net/Articles/1007921/ I hope that clarifies.

JoshTriplett 2y ago

As Miguel said, the commitment from the Rust project is making Rust for Linux build on stable Rust, rather than using nightly. We care about that for a variety of reasons: we don't want folks to get a negative impression of Rust's stability based on nightly Rust, and Rust for Linux is a good exemplar of projects needing certain features, and it's an important effort in its own right that demonstrates the ability to incrementally add Rust to an established project. It's up to the awesome Rust for Linux folks to work on the integration and upstreaming and policy needed to ship the kernel with Rust. And they're doing incredible work, based on the ability to write more and more kinds of drivers/filesystems/etc in Rust.