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> It’s all part of the sharp decline in vocational education — shop class — in this nation that began in the 1980s as blue collars became unfashionable and the
by robomc 2y ago
> It’s all part of the sharp decline in vocational education — shop class — in this nation that began in the 1980s as blue collars became unfashionable and the emphasis shifted to a college education.
Yeah that's what happened. They became "unfashionable", rather than hopelessly precarious due to structural economic changes.
- almosthere 2y agoWhat is wild to me about that, is that there is a huge untapped market for 1 man builds. If I can go out and build a house twice a year for 150-200k each, and sell them for 400-500k, then I'm way ahead of what I would get as a remote developer. And 400-500 is conservative, in the right market, 600-700. What bothers me is gatekeeping the capital to do this, as well as the "apprenticeship" requirements to get your gen con license. It would solve two problems simultaneously - something laid off engineers can easily do (they are problem solvers and fast learners). I'm building my own house, and it's ridiculously easy (not all parts). I hope to build more after and sell them.
- nancyminusone 2y agoIf that's what's bothering you, there's no way in hell I'd hire you to build a house.
- quesera 2y agoThat's unnecessarily hostile. House building is not that difficult. And literally zero of the licensed trades (plumbing, electrical, HVAC, etc) cannot be learned by a smart and motivated person in 1-2 months at most, instead of the multiple years (each, nonconcurrently) required for apprentice, journeyman, and eventual master licensing. I've built three houses. I subbed out the work that was required by local regs (this varies by jurisdiction and year), and did the work myself, with inspection where available, wherever possible. Not difficult at all.
- hobs 2y agoI would not want a house wired by a 60 day electrician, that's for sure. I don't think I'd want a flood done by the 60 day plumber either, but those are the only two trades I am familiar enough with to be aghast by this comment.
- quesera 2y agoI'm sure that's true. And it means that you do not know how to do electrical or plumbing work. That's fine! But take it from someone who does: it does not take years of training to be excellent at it. Household electric and plumbing is extremely straightforward. Commercial can be much more complicated! And if you run into any semi-complicated stuff, like say a bathroom below grade where you need a toilet to flush uphill ... you learn it from the vast resources available, or you call a plumber for that bit. Simple. Similarly, if you ever are not 100% certain of your own work, you call a licensed tradesman for the inspection. Note that this is not always allowed -- but where it is, everyone agrees that it makes total sense.
- hondo77 2y agoHousehold electric doesn't necessarily take years but it takes longer than 60 days of YouTube videos.
- quesera 2y agoI learned it in a few days of work. You could too. I don't recommend YouTube though! The most complicated thing is knowing the code, which boils down to just a handful of simple rules for residential stuff. Most importantly: look it up, don't guess. There's a right way to do everything, and it's never the hard way. There is very little variance or judgement call involved, the code is quite clear and specific. Doing it right might take additional materials or time though, and that's fine.
- XorNot 2y agoJust want to say the push back you're getting on this topic is one I've experienced everywhere - the actual work of the trades is basically treated as an unknowable black magic which only it's arcane practitioners can do. Which I think is partly held up essentially by the "dodgy tradie" stories which are routinely passed around but get re-interpreted as "it's very easy to do <obvious stupid thing>" when the stupid thing is something like "don't do a wire run from 10 short pieces of wire you have lying around" or "PVC pipes need to be glued together to not leak".
- carlosjobim 2y agoAny man who is unable to learn to build a house is far behind the average in talent. Everybody used to build their own houses.
- harimau777 2y agoI think that may be due to differences in building standards between then and now. For example, fire was a much greater risk in previous generations.
- potato3732842 2y agoIt's not that buildings burn that much less readily today. It's that in the past they caught fire way more often. The plethora of wood stoves, lanterns for light, matches for smoking, etc, etc, had more to to with it than anything else.
- 8bitsrule 2y agoIn the US here was a decades-long period when you could buy a set of books for next-to-nothing (from Audel; most are now public domain) that would fill you in on most details of most trades. You (along with friends and relatives) could do the parts you understood and farm out the rest. My dad (Navy electrician) built his own house with help from a Navy friend (carpenter). It sold a half-century later for 5 times what it cost him. The stucco exterior (whoever did it) lasted with zero fails in a climate that varied from -30F to +90F.
- almosthere 2y agoMost people in those individual trades hired by D.R. Horton are doing things as fast as possible with the cheapest materials. I personally would want a person that is being paid very well that oversaw every nail, every wire going into that house. But :shrug: I don't mind you not being my customer. I will give my meticulously installed kiln dried studs/plates, zip sheathing, rockwool, interior rockwool, exterior rockwool jacket and james hardie fireproof house to someone that appreciates it!
- ty6853 2y agoThat's not how one off man and a truck builds normally work. Its usually only viable as a business when doing owner/builder on your own dime then flipping it and repeat. Clients don't want to wait years for one man, nor will banks, but someone will almost certainly buy even a half ass built house upon completion. Sometimes you also see tradesman do this during down seasons, as it gives them a steady flow of stuff to do that they can complete almost as slow as they like then flip when done. The buyer likely won't have any insight into the personal motivations of the builder, or what bothers them.
- bongodongobob 2y agoThat's hilarious. I'd rather hire a team of people that have specialized teams and have built 1000s of houses, not a guy that built one and thinks he's really good at it, sorry.
- _carbyau_ 2y agoI understand the point of specialisation/efficiency etc. The concern I have is that of conflicting motives. A person who builds their own house will care about what they built. A specialised team will care to get paid and know all the corners to cut to get the job done to the minimum standard. What kind of house do you want? One built robustly with care? Or one built to minimum standard? Not everyone wants minimum standard.
- bongodongobob 2y agoIt just sounds like you don't know how construction works.
- _carbyau_ 2y agoIt just sounds like you don't know how people work. As some of the other "I build my own house" commenters here have mentioned, nothing stops them from hiring people when they want and specifying higher than code minimums. Building your own house doesn't mean you have to do absolutely everything even when it doesn't make sense because someone else has the tools to do it better. But it does mean they have the choice.
- bongodongobob 2y agoI work for a national construction company. You saying "construction not done diy = bad quality" makes you an absolute clown dude, just stop. There are guys working here that have been tradesman before you were born. The arrogance to say you can do it better is astonishing.
- 2y ago
- loa_in_ 2y agoIt's the same logic as people doing machineworking projects on YouTube. Things thought crazy, but not so crazy after all, fascinating instead. Going off the beaten path might be expensive at first, but the payoff is much better too. Emanating inspiration lasts for ages and is immeasurable in value.