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>> Consoles lack a good input anyway, compared to the mouse. I don't get why some people think that gaming is all about FPS's and RTS games. Why on earth woul

>> Consoles lack a good input anyway, compared to the mouse. I don't get why some people think that gaming is all about FPS's and RTS games. Why on earth would I want to use a mouse on a game like Street Fighter IV, Tetris, Bust-A-Move, Pac Man, Mario, Virtua Fighter, Tekken, etc. I can name a lot of games that work better with a traditional D-Pad type of controller than they would with a keyboard or mouse.

stewie2 14y ago
I'd like to use a keyboard to play street fighter and super mario. The reason I think keyboard is superior is that when using a keyboard, I can have few fingers on top of keys at the same time. Whereas when using the controller, I just use two thumbs. My thumb has to jump between buttons in order to switch different moves. That is slow.
- slantyyz 14y ago
  You should try using a stick with Street Fighter. I can't pull SF moves off very well with a pad, but with the stick (especially if it has an octagonal gate), it's super easy. There is something called a "Hitbox", which is a fighting controller that is all buttons: http://www.hitboxarcade.com/ http://www.hitboxarcade.com/ I think a few people at EVO were using hitboxes.
- CJefferson 14y ago
  There seems to be a consenous(ish) among players of Super Meat Boy (a mario-like, very hard, platformer) that using a controller is slightly easier. Certainly I have tried playing street fighter with a keyboard and found it extremely hard. Also, I couldn't imagine how you would play a 2d platformer which used an analogue stick. You lose the analogue if you map to the keyboard, and it doesn't really map easily to a mouse (as you can't keep moving your mouse in one direction forever).
- cube13 14y ago
  I've tried it. It doesn't work well. It's easier to play those games with controllers. The problem with those two games is that you're supposed to be pressing only one or two directional buttons at any given time in both of those games. Directional inputs are single direction at any given time. It doesn't make sense to be using multiple fingers, because when you're switching direction from moving left to right with wasd controls(for example), you need to release the a key after starting to press the d key. There are two movements you need to do: 1. (while pressing a)Press d 2. Release a. That's two separate finger motions, compared to just shifting the stick to from the left to the right, or shifting your thumb from left to right. This is especially compounded with fighters like Street Fighter, where directional stick movements are important. For example, to do Ken's Hadoken, the motion is a quarter circle forward(down, down-right, right) then punch. With a d-pad or fighting stick, this is fairly easy to do. Thumb/hand moves down, then shifts right and up. The other hand then presses the punch button. For a keyboard, it's: 1. Press s. 2. While holding down s, press d. 3. Release s. 4. While holding d, press the punch key. So 4 discrete finger motions with 3 different fingers. Again, compared to a fighting stick, which is two motions with your hand(down, and basically move hand to the right, following the side guide), and punch. That's 1 less motion, and 1 less finger to care about. While it's certainly possible to train your muscle memory to do it, it's much easier to just use the proper controller.
  - slantyyz 14y ago
    And the Hadoken is an easy example. Fortunately Street Fighter has gotten more forgiving in inputs with each release, but to do a 360, super, old school dragon knee or shoryuken, you really have to be nimble with your fingers.
    - cube13 14y ago
      It's actually the only Street Fighter move I can remember off the top of my head. :)
Cushman 14y ago
The D-pad setup has a serious limitation in that it forces you to use your thumbs. I have ten fingers; with a keyboard, I can have instantaneous command over ten actions (though eight or nine is more usual). With a console controller, it's two. (Four if we count triggers, but console games tend not to have fully-reconfigurable controls.) I ran into this playing the Tony Hawk games, which I loved on the PC; on the console, executing complex combos feels like a thumb workout. Obviously it is still a stylistic choice; the keyboard enables faster, more focused play, while the controller encourages a more laid-back playstyle which still feels competitive. But it does that by deliberately crippling the control you have, and you should embrace that.
- slantyyz 14y ago
  >> The D-pad setup has a serious limitation in that it forces you to use your thumbs. O RLY? I have been using D-pads with my right hand "piano style" for over a decade. I don't use my right thumb at all. Anyone who's been exposed to a fighting game on a console knows that for many moves, you need to press multiple buttons simultaneously. That you wouldn't think to hold the controller differently is kinda mind boggling.
  - Cushman 14y ago
    Okay, well, that's kind of the point. Why are you holding a device designed to fit the human hand a particular way in a different way to get around its design limitations while claiming it's superior to another device designed without those limitations? The PHP hammer springs to mind.
    - slantyyz 14y ago
      It's not a design limitation. Gamepads are designed to handle multiple use cases, not just one. That's why the analog joystick works as a substitute for the D-pad for many games. To presume that there's only one way to hold it is just narrow thinking. Hell, this guy (Brolylegs) was a top bracket player in Street Fighter in EVO and he uses his face on a gamepad to play a game that requires directional control and six buttons to play properly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va2QO-qtb_Q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va2QO-qtb_Q --edit-- >> claiming it's superior to another device designed without those limitations? The PHP hammer springs to mind. So "hey, I can use a device designed for text entry as a game controller" isn't like a PHP hammer?

stewie2 14y ago

I'd like to use a keyboard to play street fighter and super mario. The reason I think keyboard is superior is that when using a keyboard, I can have few fingers on top of keys at the same time. Whereas when using the controller, I just use two thumbs. My thumb has to jump between buttons in order to switch different moves. That is slow.

slantyyz 14y ago
You should try using a stick with Street Fighter. I can't pull SF moves off very well with a pad, but with the stick (especially if it has an octagonal gate), it's super easy. There is something called a "Hitbox", which is a fighting controller that is all buttons: http://www.hitboxarcade.com/ http://www.hitboxarcade.com/ I think a few people at EVO were using hitboxes.
CJefferson 14y ago
There seems to be a consenous(ish) among players of Super Meat Boy (a mario-like, very hard, platformer) that using a controller is slightly easier. Certainly I have tried playing street fighter with a keyboard and found it extremely hard. Also, I couldn't imagine how you would play a 2d platformer which used an analogue stick. You lose the analogue if you map to the keyboard, and it doesn't really map easily to a mouse (as you can't keep moving your mouse in one direction forever).
cube13 14y ago
I've tried it. It doesn't work well. It's easier to play those games with controllers. The problem with those two games is that you're supposed to be pressing only one or two directional buttons at any given time in both of those games. Directional inputs are single direction at any given time. It doesn't make sense to be using multiple fingers, because when you're switching direction from moving left to right with wasd controls(for example), you need to release the a key after starting to press the d key. There are two movements you need to do: 1. (while pressing a)Press d 2. Release a. That's two separate finger motions, compared to just shifting the stick to from the left to the right, or shifting your thumb from left to right. This is especially compounded with fighters like Street Fighter, where directional stick movements are important. For example, to do Ken's Hadoken, the motion is a quarter circle forward(down, down-right, right) then punch. With a d-pad or fighting stick, this is fairly easy to do. Thumb/hand moves down, then shifts right and up. The other hand then presses the punch button. For a keyboard, it's: 1. Press s. 2. While holding down s, press d. 3. Release s. 4. While holding d, press the punch key. So 4 discrete finger motions with 3 different fingers. Again, compared to a fighting stick, which is two motions with your hand(down, and basically move hand to the right, following the side guide), and punch. That's 1 less motion, and 1 less finger to care about. While it's certainly possible to train your muscle memory to do it, it's much easier to just use the proper controller.
- slantyyz 14y ago
  And the Hadoken is an easy example. Fortunately Street Fighter has gotten more forgiving in inputs with each release, but to do a 360, super, old school dragon knee or shoryuken, you really have to be nimble with your fingers.
  - cube13 14y ago
    It's actually the only Street Fighter move I can remember off the top of my head. :)

Cushman 14y ago

The D-pad setup has a serious limitation in that it forces you to use your thumbs. I have ten fingers; with a keyboard, I can have instantaneous command over ten actions (though eight or nine is more usual). With a console controller, it's two. (Four if we count triggers, but console games tend not to have fully-reconfigurable controls.) I ran into this playing the Tony Hawk games, which I loved on the PC; on the console, executing complex combos feels like a thumb workout. Obviously it is still a stylistic choice; the keyboard enables faster, more focused play, while the controller encourages a more laid-back playstyle which still feels competitive. But it does that by deliberately crippling the control you have, and you should embrace that.

slantyyz 14y ago
>> The D-pad setup has a serious limitation in that it forces you to use your thumbs. O RLY? I have been using D-pads with my right hand "piano style" for over a decade. I don't use my right thumb at all. Anyone who's been exposed to a fighting game on a console knows that for many moves, you need to press multiple buttons simultaneously. That you wouldn't think to hold the controller differently is kinda mind boggling.
- Cushman 14y ago
  Okay, well, that's kind of the point. Why are you holding a device designed to fit the human hand a particular way in a different way to get around its design limitations while claiming it's superior to another device designed without those limitations? The PHP hammer springs to mind.
  - slantyyz 14y ago
    It's not a design limitation. Gamepads are designed to handle multiple use cases, not just one. That's why the analog joystick works as a substitute for the D-pad for many games. To presume that there's only one way to hold it is just narrow thinking. Hell, this guy (Brolylegs) was a top bracket player in Street Fighter in EVO and he uses his face on a gamepad to play a game that requires directional control and six buttons to play properly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va2QO-qtb_Q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va2QO-qtb_Q --edit-- >> claiming it's superior to another device designed without those limitations? The PHP hammer springs to mind. So "hey, I can use a device designed for text entry as a game controller" isn't like a PHP hammer?