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I think WFH is good for some people but not good at all for others. For example, I don't usually do well at all. I get distracted all the time, my brain doesn'

I think WFH is good for some people but not good at all for others. For example, I don't usually do well at all. I get distracted all the time, my brain doesn't seem to feel it's in work mode and so on. I actually prefer to commute (I take the tube, read and listen to music; my brain is gradually turning on) and work from the office, have some chitchat, meet new colleagues, enjoy the snacks and beverages and then once I'm done I go home and the commute back is like a shutdown of my work brain. To each his own I guess, I highly dislike polarising opinions (WFH is the best for everyone! or Everyone should be in the office all time!).

bloomingkales 2y ago
I'm going to make an argument centered around hygiene. Many people in this world have certain bathroom habits, but generally we believe a modern bathroom is probably the best place for us to handle things. Some people don't, some people find it perfectly fine to piss in a corner if they really need to out on the street. What are you gonna do? We can easily show a lot of people why WFH is the correct way, but some people will ... you know, still enjoy a good piss on the street. It's like, something is wrong with them you know? So we can't really consider the pissing on the street people's (in this case, the people that love the office) opinions too seriously. It's unhygienic. RTO people are trying to make the world worse.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- anal_reactor 2y ago
  > I'm going to make an argument centered around hygiene Instant win in any discussion because nobody wants to be considered unhygienic, even if it makes zero measurable difference. Same as "security" because nobody wants to be blamed for a security incident, even if costs of potential incident are less than the costs of maintaining security solutions. Same as "return to office" because nobody wants to be blamed for negative consequences of WFH even if they're negligible.
  - bloomingkales 2y ago
    My optimistic outlook? I think AI will eliminate waste in tech to the point where developers will launch their own businesses (we won’t need the waste of project managers, agile, administrative roles, etc). A new type of business owner will emerge and these types are WFH-minded first. This is the group that will elevate wFH permanently, since these developers will be part of the exodus from corporate America (leaving behind the culture of in-office work). We just need the courage to keep crossing the Bering Strait.
    - rightbyte 2y ago
      I think it is optimistic to assume the position of power or close to power (agile clergy, 'sales', middle management etc) are more disposable than programmers. Their class loyalty is just way higher than the workers'. Programmer coops are not really a thing. You wont get the deals.
      - bloomingkales 2y ago
        I’m not suggesting an evolution of the current machine, I’m suggesting an exodus. Rebuild these apps without a single one of those bastards is what I’m saying. We could do it if wanted to. Rebuild GitHub, rebuild LinkedIn, rebuild Jira, without all the grifters.
      - cess11 2y ago
        "Programmer coops are not really a thing." It's actually pretty common, usually small consulting firms and web site boutiques.
        rightbyte 2y ago
        Ye good point I might need to rescind that.
- throw734885 2y ago
  Some people's pets will shit right at centre of office. Or in kitchen... Shit then gets smeared everywhere with paper towels!
alanfranz 2y ago
I think it's a platitude, but of course a "non-restricted hybrid" is the best choice, so when you want to work from home you just do, and when you prefer to go the office you go there. Full remote is not for everyone. Full time office-based can be hard for parents or people living far away (or just suck if the office is noisy/messy).
- world2vec 2y ago
  Yeah I agree that hybrid is the way to go, different people have different needs and preferences and that is totally fine!
- taneq 2y ago
  That's how we work. We're officially a "remote-first" company, in that nobody is required to come into the office or work at specific times of day unless their work physically requires it. People still come in most days because we have nice big monitors and it's hard to get parts off the 3D printer remotely. (It still feels sci-fi as hell to be able to design a part and start printing it, all from the pub, though!)
theshrike79 2y ago
Yep, hybrid works best for me too. Being at home 100% of the time works if I have perfectly clear tasks and deadlines. But as soon as there's something that requires collaboration with multiple people it's just SO MUCH EASIER to do it in person with everyone physically in the same room. Zoom is good and all, but it's always janky the more people are in the meeting. On site you can get more of the subtle hints off of people and the conversation flows better when you can talk over each other without the software deciding whose voice gets through. Then you make the decisions you need and can hole up in your comfy home office for a while before needing to emerge again to collaborate.
- rubslopes 2y ago
  > Zoom is good and all, but it's always janky the more people are in the meeting. It's the little things, isn't it? Like when someone starts talking one second before you finish and you can't hear them, and then you ask them to repeat, and there's some lag, and you are not sure if they really said something or it was a glitch... Then you lose 20 seconds doing the "did you say something? No no, it was my cat passing by" and everyone lost focus.
  - theshrike79 2y ago
    Or people on site talking with each other and not noticing the raised hand of someone online. All this can be mitigated with processes, but it takes conscious work to keep it up.
marzipanWhale 2y ago
I agree with you. When I work at home I'm barely half as efficient, and I get depressed after a couple of days. My brain is just not wired for it.
thefz 2y ago
This reads like it has been written by AI for someone who really wishes for an RTO. Who the hell enjoys office snacks?
- world2vec 2y ago
  I'm not an AI, my office (trading firm) has awesome snacks and drinks. I'm sorry that's not your case.
- vineyardmike 2y ago
  Snacks are great. I work better when I have a little something to munch on. Free food unlocks something in our silly little primate brains I think. Also my office often has great snacks. We also have a barista and that alone is worth it.

bloomingkales 2y ago

I'm going to make an argument centered around hygiene. Many people in this world have certain bathroom habits, but generally we believe a modern bathroom is probably the best place for us to handle things. Some people don't, some people find it perfectly fine to piss in a corner if they really need to out on the street. What are you gonna do? We can easily show a lot of people why WFH is the correct way, but some people will ... you know, still enjoy a good piss on the street. It's like, something is wrong with them you know? So we can't really consider the pissing on the street people's (in this case, the people that love the office) opinions too seriously. It's unhygienic. RTO people are trying to make the world worse.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
anal_reactor 2y ago
> I'm going to make an argument centered around hygiene Instant win in any discussion because nobody wants to be considered unhygienic, even if it makes zero measurable difference. Same as "security" because nobody wants to be blamed for a security incident, even if costs of potential incident are less than the costs of maintaining security solutions. Same as "return to office" because nobody wants to be blamed for negative consequences of WFH even if they're negligible.
- bloomingkales 2y ago
  My optimistic outlook? I think AI will eliminate waste in tech to the point where developers will launch their own businesses (we won’t need the waste of project managers, agile, administrative roles, etc). A new type of business owner will emerge and these types are WFH-minded first. This is the group that will elevate wFH permanently, since these developers will be part of the exodus from corporate America (leaving behind the culture of in-office work). We just need the courage to keep crossing the Bering Strait.
  - rightbyte 2y ago
    I think it is optimistic to assume the position of power or close to power (agile clergy, 'sales', middle management etc) are more disposable than programmers. Their class loyalty is just way higher than the workers'. Programmer coops are not really a thing. You wont get the deals.
    - bloomingkales 2y ago
      I’m not suggesting an evolution of the current machine, I’m suggesting an exodus. Rebuild these apps without a single one of those bastards is what I’m saying. We could do it if wanted to. Rebuild GitHub, rebuild LinkedIn, rebuild Jira, without all the grifters.
    - cess11 2y ago
      "Programmer coops are not really a thing." It's actually pretty common, usually small consulting firms and web site boutiques.
      - rightbyte 2y ago
        Ye good point I might need to rescind that.
throw734885 2y ago
Some people's pets will shit right at centre of office. Or in kitchen... Shit then gets smeared everywhere with paper towels!

alanfranz 2y ago

I think it's a platitude, but of course a "non-restricted hybrid" is the best choice, so when you want to work from home you just do, and when you prefer to go the office you go there. Full remote is not for everyone. Full time office-based can be hard for parents or people living far away (or just suck if the office is noisy/messy).

world2vec 2y ago
Yeah I agree that hybrid is the way to go, different people have different needs and preferences and that is totally fine!
taneq 2y ago
That's how we work. We're officially a "remote-first" company, in that nobody is required to come into the office or work at specific times of day unless their work physically requires it. People still come in most days because we have nice big monitors and it's hard to get parts off the 3D printer remotely. (It still feels sci-fi as hell to be able to design a part and start printing it, all from the pub, though!)

theshrike79 2y ago

Yep, hybrid works best for me too. Being at home 100% of the time works if I have perfectly clear tasks and deadlines. But as soon as there's something that requires collaboration with multiple people it's just SO MUCH EASIER to do it in person with everyone physically in the same room. Zoom is good and all, but it's always janky the more people are in the meeting. On site you can get more of the subtle hints off of people and the conversation flows better when you can talk over each other without the software deciding whose voice gets through. Then you make the decisions you need and can hole up in your comfy home office for a while before needing to emerge again to collaborate.

rubslopes 2y ago
> Zoom is good and all, but it's always janky the more people are in the meeting. It's the little things, isn't it? Like when someone starts talking one second before you finish and you can't hear them, and then you ask them to repeat, and there's some lag, and you are not sure if they really said something or it was a glitch... Then you lose 20 seconds doing the "did you say something? No no, it was my cat passing by" and everyone lost focus.
- theshrike79 2y ago
  Or people on site talking with each other and not noticing the raised hand of someone online. All this can be mitigated with processes, but it takes conscious work to keep it up.

marzipanWhale 2y ago

I agree with you. When I work at home I'm barely half as efficient, and I get depressed after a couple of days. My brain is just not wired for it.

thefz 2y ago

This reads like it has been written by AI for someone who really wishes for an RTO. Who the hell enjoys office snacks?

world2vec 2y ago
I'm not an AI, my office (trading firm) has awesome snacks and drinks. I'm sorry that's not your case.
vineyardmike 2y ago
Snacks are great. I work better when I have a little something to munch on. Free food unlocks something in our silly little primate brains I think. Also my office often has great snacks. We also have a barista and that alone is worth it.