5 ms·

NixOS and Portable Executables

53 points by jandeboevrie 2y ago

sandreas 2y ago
The main reason I ditched NixOS was the missing ability to run dynamically linked executables by default and not wanting to deal with the possible fixes. Good to See that there is hope for that.
- Diti 2y ago
  I know it’s not a default, but `buildFHSUserEnv` is probably what you would have been interested in.
  - kokada 2y ago
    There is also `nix-alien` (I am the author BTW), that automates the process of listing all program dynamic libraries (as long they're not loaded at runtime) and creating the `shell.nix` file with `buildFHSUserEnv`. And also `programs.nix-ld` now, that allow you to impurely include libraries available to all programs. It does some LD_LIBRARY_PATH hacks, but AFAIK it worked well enough for me when I had this in my system (I don't anymore since I barely run dynamically linked executable from other sources).
    - sandreas 2y ago
      Thanks. Try `tone`[1] my pet project. I'm pretty sure it won't work without tinkering out of the box. Since I need a dev machine, that supports my FOSS projects, NixOS is not for me :-) BTW it was not the ONLY reason, I ditched it, but the main reason. There were a lot of nice advantages to NixOS, but they did not outweight the issues I personally had. 1: https://github.com/sandreas/tone https://github.com/sandreas/tone
      - lloeki 2y ago
        > I'm pretty sure it won't work without tinkering out of the box This worked OOTB: curl -L -O https://github.com/sandreas/tone/releases/download/v0.2.4/tone-0.2.4-linux-arm64.tar.gz tar xzf tone-0.2.4-linux-arm64.tar.gz nix run github:thiagokokada/nix-alien -- ./tone-0.2.4-linux-arm64/tone --help Which is nice because: a) I didn't know about tone b) I am in the process of sorting out some tagging of my personal music so tone looks like exactly what I need and will come in super handy So, thanks!
        sandreas 2y ago
        You're welcome. Maybe use 0.2.5 then, i probably forgot to update the readme :-)
      - Cloudef 2y ago
        You can use nix on FHS OS as well
- jowea 2y ago
  steam-run solves this for me at least.
  - _jackdk_ 2y ago
    Seconded. Despite sounding like it's only a tool for games, `steam-run` is very useful for generally running foreign binaries on NixOS. There's also `nix-ld`: https://github.com/nix-community/nix-ld https://github.com/nix-community/nix-ld
- max-privatevoid 2y ago
  You ditched NixOS for the very reason it was created. Not being able to run binaries with missing libraries is a feature. The idea is to make you aware of your implicit dependencies, and to force you to make them explicit. This makes me wonder if you were subjected to false advertising.
  - sandreas 2y ago
    Maybe. I was drawn in by the reproducable setup routine that can't break the existing system. I didn't think too mich about how it is achieved.
  - mingus88 2y ago
    Advertising in the Nix space is wild. I first learned about it in the realm of reproducible builds as well, which feels more like a “nix the language” feature This led me to install nixos which is really kind of an output of that design, a distribution built from nixpgks. There are some rough spots that make it hard for a daily driver. That distro is a bit much for my needs and I have retreated back to a home-manager cross platform setup for my arch/debian/macos systems, and it turns out the entire reason I started looking at Nix (builds) went nowhere Getting adoption for Nix builds at work or with my OSS projects is has been hard. Docker is everywhere and easy, while Nix feels like a fractured and poorly documented ecosystem.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
revskill 2y ago
The font size and color and layout seems uneasy for me.
- _jackdk_ 2y ago
  I'm trying to match the EGA colour palette for most if not all of my colour selections, and #555-on-#fff passes WCAG AAA requirements for body text. If I make it #000-on-#fff, I struggle to find good ways to differentiate inline `code` sections. As for text size, the CSS expresses no opinion: I'm expecting your user agent to act in your best interest. Do you have any suggestions?
romesmoke 2y ago
Were I to design a computer (both HW & SW), the founding principle should be compatibility with legacy code at no expense of performance or user effort. Stuff like this gives me hope that I'm not merely wet-dreaming.
- marliechiller 2y ago
  did you mean to say "wet"-dreaming in this context? Seems an odd addition to simply "dreaming"
  - bmacho 2y ago
    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wet_dream https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wet_dream An exciting fantasy; a very appealing, ideal thing, person, or state of affairs.
    - marliechiller 2y ago
      "An erotic dream bringing the sleeper to orgasm" - this was what I was confused about.
  - romesmoke 2y ago
    Nah, the alternative that popped in my mind was "phantasizing", so I guess my wording aligns with my feelings. Whether these feelings are healthy is another discussion :D
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
_jackdk_ 2y ago
The post title has been mangled, perhaps by the title simplifier. The "actually" in the title is important - the post is about Justine Tunney's work on "actually portable executables" (https://justine.lol/ape.html https://justine.lol/ape.html). Without it, it sounds like it refers to standard Microsoft "Portable Executable" (PE) format binaries.
yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
> But APEs have been a little finicky for me. I run NixOS as my primary operating system, and sometimes an APE will refuse to launch, or I’ll need to pass --assimilate to it and permanently turn it into an x86-64 Linux binary before it’ll work. I wonder if anyone could expand on "sometimes"? Because I've got a llamafile on nixos that seems to work fine. I'd assumed that meant that APE+NixOS worked, but it sounds like it only works part of the time?

53 points by jandeboevrie 2y ago

The main reason I ditched NixOS was the missing ability to run dynamically linked executables by default and not wanting to deal with the possible fixes. Good to See that there is hope for that.

Diti 2y ago
I know it’s not a default, but `buildFHSUserEnv` is probably what you would have been interested in.
- kokada 2y ago
  There is also `nix-alien` (I am the author BTW), that automates the process of listing all program dynamic libraries (as long they're not loaded at runtime) and creating the `shell.nix` file with `buildFHSUserEnv`. And also `programs.nix-ld` now, that allow you to impurely include libraries available to all programs. It does some LD_LIBRARY_PATH hacks, but AFAIK it worked well enough for me when I had this in my system (I don't anymore since I barely run dynamically linked executable from other sources).
  - sandreas 2y ago
    Thanks. Try `tone`[1] my pet project. I'm pretty sure it won't work without tinkering out of the box. Since I need a dev machine, that supports my FOSS projects, NixOS is not for me :-) BTW it was not the ONLY reason, I ditched it, but the main reason. There were a lot of nice advantages to NixOS, but they did not outweight the issues I personally had. 1: https://github.com/sandreas/tone https://github.com/sandreas/tone
    - lloeki 2y ago
      > I'm pretty sure it won't work without tinkering out of the box This worked OOTB: curl -L -O https://github.com/sandreas/tone/releases/download/v0.2.4/tone-0.2.4-linux-arm64.tar.gz tar xzf tone-0.2.4-linux-arm64.tar.gz nix run github:thiagokokada/nix-alien -- ./tone-0.2.4-linux-arm64/tone --help Which is nice because: a) I didn't know about tone b) I am in the process of sorting out some tagging of my personal music so tone looks like exactly what I need and will come in super handy So, thanks!
      - sandreas 2y ago
        You're welcome. Maybe use 0.2.5 then, i probably forgot to update the readme :-)
    - Cloudef 2y ago
      You can use nix on FHS OS as well
jowea 2y ago
steam-run solves this for me at least.
- _jackdk_ 2y ago
  Seconded. Despite sounding like it's only a tool for games, `steam-run` is very useful for generally running foreign binaries on NixOS. There's also `nix-ld`: https://github.com/nix-community/nix-ld https://github.com/nix-community/nix-ld
max-privatevoid 2y ago
You ditched NixOS for the very reason it was created. Not being able to run binaries with missing libraries is a feature. The idea is to make you aware of your implicit dependencies, and to force you to make them explicit. This makes me wonder if you were subjected to false advertising.
- sandreas 2y ago
  Maybe. I was drawn in by the reproducable setup routine that can't break the existing system. I didn't think too mich about how it is achieved.
- mingus88 2y ago
  Advertising in the Nix space is wild. I first learned about it in the realm of reproducible builds as well, which feels more like a “nix the language” feature This led me to install nixos which is really kind of an output of that design, a distribution built from nixpgks. There are some rough spots that make it hard for a daily driver. That distro is a bit much for my needs and I have retreated back to a home-manager cross platform setup for my arch/debian/macos systems, and it turns out the entire reason I started looking at Nix (builds) went nowhere Getting adoption for Nix builds at work or with my OSS projects is has been hard. Docker is everywhere and easy, while Nix feels like a fractured and poorly documented ecosystem.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

revskill 2y ago

The font size and color and layout seems uneasy for me.

_jackdk_ 2y ago
I'm trying to match the EGA colour palette for most if not all of my colour selections, and #555-on-#fff passes WCAG AAA requirements for body text. If I make it #000-on-#fff, I struggle to find good ways to differentiate inline `code` sections. As for text size, the CSS expresses no opinion: I'm expecting your user agent to act in your best interest. Do you have any suggestions?

romesmoke 2y ago

Were I to design a computer (both HW & SW), the founding principle should be compatibility with legacy code at no expense of performance or user effort. Stuff like this gives me hope that I'm not merely wet-dreaming.

marliechiller 2y ago
did you mean to say "wet"-dreaming in this context? Seems an odd addition to simply "dreaming"
- bmacho 2y ago
  https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wet_dream https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wet_dream An exciting fantasy; a very appealing, ideal thing, person, or state of affairs.
  - marliechiller 2y ago
    "An erotic dream bringing the sleeper to orgasm" - this was what I was confused about.
- romesmoke 2y ago
  Nah, the alternative that popped in my mind was "phantasizing", so I guess my wording aligns with my feelings. Whether these feelings are healthy is another discussion :D

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

_jackdk_ 2y ago

The post title has been mangled, perhaps by the title simplifier. The "actually" in the title is important - the post is about Justine Tunney's work on "actually portable executables" (https://justine.lol/ape.html https://justine.lol/ape.html). Without it, it sounds like it refers to standard Microsoft "Portable Executable" (PE) format binaries.

yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago

> But APEs have been a little finicky for me. I run NixOS as my primary operating system, and sometimes an APE will refuse to launch, or I’ll need to pass --assimilate to it and permanently turn it into an x86-64 Linux binary before it’ll work. I wonder if anyone could expand on "sometimes"? Because I've got a llamafile on nixos that seems to work fine. I'd assumed that meant that APE+NixOS worked, but it sounds like it only works part of the time?