4 ms·

The answer is as old as time: abolish usury, punish speculation & reward labor.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> abolish usury, punish speculation & reward labor Red herring. Reality is some people in our society don’t have supersubsistence economic value. Historically, we let them starve. Now we have a chance to do differently. OP describes unemployment. Not leverage. Not gambling. And not being ripped off on their pay. Just not having a job they can be paid for (where they are).
- recursivedoubts 2y ago
  Historically, we (i don't know who you are) provided both solidarity & charity.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > we (i don't know who you are) provided both solidarity & charity Empirically, no. Most humans facing food insecurity starved.
    - wnc3141 2y ago
      With fewer than 2% of people employed in agriculture, the US produces more food than needed for ten billion people. Capital distributions are the source of declining wealth for most people. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/W270RE1A156NBEA https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/W270RE1A156NBEA Of course the common course provided food insecurity. See the book why nations fail. -- making markets necessary, but excessive capital concentration (rent seeking) also reduces the productive capacity of an economy via, restricting capital flows through verticals.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        Super interesting, thank you. Unfortunately, not relevant to someone who doesn’t have labour to sell.
        yellowapple 2y ago
        The notion that labor must be sold for basic survival is in and of itself the problem.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > notion that labor must be sold for basic survival is in and of itself the problem One, this isn't a thing in the developed world. Two, why not? Existence isn't free, and denying that reality is bound to lead to problems. Strong communities tend to start with acknowledging the reality that is the cost of existing. From that flows the value of existence, the value of others' existence to one's own, and thus, altruism.
        yellowapple 2y ago
        > One, this isn't a thing in the developed world. I mean, if you're saying that the US doesn't count as "the developed world" then I'd agree with you, but otherwise I'd encourage you to take a field trip to your local river banks and highway underpasses if you want to see what happens if you fail to sell your labor. > Existence isn't free It'd be pretty darn close to it if the means of said existence weren't hoarded and price-gouged for the sake of profiteering and rentseeking. We have enough food in the US to end world hunger. Most cities have more vacant homes than they have homeless persons. Any supposed scarcity of basic essentials is artificial. > Strong communities tend to start with acknowledging the reality that is the cost of existing. Strong communities tend to start with acknowledging that their members deserve to have food to eat, clothes on their backs, and rooves over their heads, and are consequently willing to operate on a principle of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need".
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> abolish usury, punish speculation & reward labor Red herring. Reality is some people in our society don’t have supersubsistence economic value. Historically, we let them starve. Now we have a chance to do differently. OP describes unemployment. Not leverage. Not gambling. And not being ripped off on their pay. Just not having a job they can be paid for (where they are).

recursivedoubts 2y ago
Historically, we (i don't know who you are) provided both solidarity & charity.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > we (i don't know who you are) provided both solidarity & charity Empirically, no. Most humans facing food insecurity starved.
  - wnc3141 2y ago
    With fewer than 2% of people employed in agriculture, the US produces more food than needed for ten billion people. Capital distributions are the source of declining wealth for most people. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/W270RE1A156NBEA https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/W270RE1A156NBEA Of course the common course provided food insecurity. See the book why nations fail. -- making markets necessary, but excessive capital concentration (rent seeking) also reduces the productive capacity of an economy via, restricting capital flows through verticals.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      Super interesting, thank you. Unfortunately, not relevant to someone who doesn’t have labour to sell.
      - yellowapple 2y ago
        The notion that labor must be sold for basic survival is in and of itself the problem.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > notion that labor must be sold for basic survival is in and of itself the problem One, this isn't a thing in the developed world. Two, why not? Existence isn't free, and denying that reality is bound to lead to problems. Strong communities tend to start with acknowledging the reality that is the cost of existing. From that flows the value of existence, the value of others' existence to one's own, and thus, altruism.
        yellowapple 2y ago
        > One, this isn't a thing in the developed world. I mean, if you're saying that the US doesn't count as "the developed world" then I'd agree with you, but otherwise I'd encourage you to take a field trip to your local river banks and highway underpasses if you want to see what happens if you fail to sell your labor. > Existence isn't free It'd be pretty darn close to it if the means of said existence weren't hoarded and price-gouged for the sake of profiteering and rentseeking. We have enough food in the US to end world hunger. Most cities have more vacant homes than they have homeless persons. Any supposed scarcity of basic essentials is artificial. > Strong communities tend to start with acknowledging the reality that is the cost of existing. Strong communities tend to start with acknowledging that their members deserve to have food to eat, clothes on their backs, and rooves over their heads, and are consequently willing to operate on a principle of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need".
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago