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What’s impressive about Tesla? It’s already being outcompeted by companies in China, losing market share, and the other manufacturers are catching up. Besides

What’s impressive about Tesla? It’s already being outcompeted by companies in China, losing market share, and the other manufacturers are catching up. Besides that, he’s pissed off the demographics most likely to buy Teslas. It’s not like most Trump voters are buying EVs

diogocp 2y ago
> What’s impressive about Tesla? The fact that it's worth more than all the other automakers combined. > the other manufacturers are catching up Re-read what you wrote, and consider how preposterous it is that automakers founded more than a century ago are now "catching up" to a company that sold its first car in 2008.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  Well, Trump’s various meme coins also have a value… But, using pricing fundamentals, can you really justify Tesla’s value anymore than OpenAIs?
- bdangubic 2y ago
  The fact that it's worth more than all the other automakers combined. to justify this “vapor worth” Tesla would have to sell about 89 billion cars :) …automakers founded more than century ago… look-up when BYD was founded…
- selcuka 2y ago
  > The fact that it's worth more than all the other automakers combined. "Tesla stock price is too high imo" — Elon Musk (@elonmusk) May 1, 2020
- mullingitover 2y ago
  > The fact that it's worth more than all the other automakers combined. The South Sea Company was also stupendously valuable until it wasn't.
eagerpace 2y ago
No doubt he needs to distance himself from the company so that his political career stops impacting it so directly. The business is over valued but still very impressive. Yes the software is controversial, but the hardware is fantastic and a decade ahead of what other domestic automakers are doing. They’re also profitable and have a long term vision to innovate unlike many industry peers who chase the government mandate du jour.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  There is nothing about Tesla that is even one year ahead of EVs. My wife and I travel a lot and haven’t owned our own car since late 2022 until late last year and tried a lot of different EVs. They were all just as good as the Tesla and had a better infotainment system. Tesla is not as profitable as Toyota, GM or Volkswagen and their profit is trending down. There is nothing justifying their market cap based on their profit or even 5 year expected profit. Tesla has made a lot of promises that they haven’t come close to fulfilling and Musk right now is the definition of regulatory capture
slg 2y ago
>What’s impressive about Tesla? There is this weird revisionist history now that Musk is hated to dismiss all Tesla's accomplishments as meaningless. The traditional auto industry would have never embraced EVs to the extent they have if someone did not disrupt the market in a way like Tesla did. That is both impressive and huge net positive for humanity in a way that is an extremely rare achievement for any startup.
- bdangubic 2y ago
  facts! except did not disrupt the market in a way like Tesla did. I am not sure this really counts as distruption - not sure 8.1% of the market qualifies as distruption… perhaps it does if the trend continues like it did outside of the US
- yodsanklai 2y ago
  > The traditional auto industry would have never embraced EVs to the extent they have if someone did not disrupt the market in a way like Tesla did. This isn't clear to me. Maybe in the US? but in Europe, there should be no new CO2-emitting cars by 2035. There's a global trend to move to EV due to climate change that has little to do with Tesla.
  - slg 2y ago
    You are pointing to a disrupted market as evidence that the market didn't need to be disrupted. A quick search suggest that EU ban on CO2-emitting cars was from 2022, 5 years after Tesla started selling the Model 3. The global trend toward EVs was largely started by Tesla showing that EVs were a viable product with real demand.
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      Okay and the GUI was started by Apple as far as PCs. Where did that leave Apple as far as the PC market compared to Microsoft? And “disruption” doesn’t mean whet you think it means. Were any of the existing car manufacturers ever threatened by Tesla as far as market share and revenue like what happened to RIM and Nokia in the smart phone space?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Aloisius 2y ago
Musk didn't found Tesla. Presumably the two impressive companies are SpaceX and OpenAI? Or maybe the Boring Company?
zozbot234 2y ago
Tesla and the Chinese manufacturers are not playing in anything near the same league. Making cheap EV's is in no way "outcompeting" Tesla. Rather, Tesla has shown that it can handily outcompete traditional luxury auto companies, beating them at their own game.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  Someone hasn’t heard of the “Innovator’s Dilemma”. Tesla is far from the most profitable automaker and doesn’t even have the largest margins. Compare thier place in the automaker to say Apple’s place in the phone market
  - zozbot234 2y ago
    The Innovator's Dilemma is about new, disruptive technologies causing large, established, incumbent firms to fail. Are the Chinese EV makers developing new technologies?
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      That’s exactly the opposite of the Innovator’s Dilemna. That’s the startup bros definition they use in pitch decks. But not Clay Christenson’s definition It’s about products coming into the market at the low end that are “good enough” when the current leaders “over serve” the market - “low end disruption”. Examples are PCs -> mainframes, Linux x86 servers -> Unix boxes, digital cameras/phones -> regular cameras and even smart phones to PCs Surprisingly enough, another facet of the Innovator’s dilemma is that low end disruption partially happens because the companies involved are not vertically integrated like Tesla and each part of the supply chain focuses on optimizing their components and have scale efficiencies because the low end market has more volume. We see that now with Chinese ODMs in the EV space. We saw that before with x86 PCs vs Macs and to an extent with smart phones. Apple is kind of unique as a vertically integrated company. But even they don’t make their own processors or manufacturer their own devices
- tim333 2y ago
  BYD seems to be in a similar league. Unit sales 3x tesla in the last quarter and: >... big event showcasing its autonomous driving tech on Feb. 10, rolling out driver assist features to EVs as low as $10,000. They also have a funky supercar while the Tesla one we still await: https://youtu.be/6M3QdN43yqI https://youtu.be/6M3QdN43yqI

diogocp 2y ago

> What’s impressive about Tesla? The fact that it's worth more than all the other automakers combined. > the other manufacturers are catching up Re-read what you wrote, and consider how preposterous it is that automakers founded more than a century ago are now "catching up" to a company that sold its first car in 2008.

scarface_74 2y ago
Well, Trump’s various meme coins also have a value… But, using pricing fundamentals, can you really justify Tesla’s value anymore than OpenAIs?
bdangubic 2y ago
The fact that it's worth more than all the other automakers combined. to justify this “vapor worth” Tesla would have to sell about 89 billion cars :) …automakers founded more than century ago… look-up when BYD was founded…
selcuka 2y ago
> The fact that it's worth more than all the other automakers combined. "Tesla stock price is too high imo" — Elon Musk (@elonmusk) May 1, 2020
mullingitover 2y ago
> The fact that it's worth more than all the other automakers combined. The South Sea Company was also stupendously valuable until it wasn't.

eagerpace 2y ago

No doubt he needs to distance himself from the company so that his political career stops impacting it so directly. The business is over valued but still very impressive. Yes the software is controversial, but the hardware is fantastic and a decade ahead of what other domestic automakers are doing. They’re also profitable and have a long term vision to innovate unlike many industry peers who chase the government mandate du jour.

scarface_74 2y ago
There is nothing about Tesla that is even one year ahead of EVs. My wife and I travel a lot and haven’t owned our own car since late 2022 until late last year and tried a lot of different EVs. They were all just as good as the Tesla and had a better infotainment system. Tesla is not as profitable as Toyota, GM or Volkswagen and their profit is trending down. There is nothing justifying their market cap based on their profit or even 5 year expected profit. Tesla has made a lot of promises that they haven’t come close to fulfilling and Musk right now is the definition of regulatory capture

slg 2y ago

>What’s impressive about Tesla? There is this weird revisionist history now that Musk is hated to dismiss all Tesla's accomplishments as meaningless. The traditional auto industry would have never embraced EVs to the extent they have if someone did not disrupt the market in a way like Tesla did. That is both impressive and huge net positive for humanity in a way that is an extremely rare achievement for any startup.

bdangubic 2y ago
facts! except did not disrupt the market in a way like Tesla did. I am not sure this really counts as distruption - not sure 8.1% of the market qualifies as distruption… perhaps it does if the trend continues like it did outside of the US
yodsanklai 2y ago
> The traditional auto industry would have never embraced EVs to the extent they have if someone did not disrupt the market in a way like Tesla did. This isn't clear to me. Maybe in the US? but in Europe, there should be no new CO2-emitting cars by 2035. There's a global trend to move to EV due to climate change that has little to do with Tesla.
- slg 2y ago
  You are pointing to a disrupted market as evidence that the market didn't need to be disrupted. A quick search suggest that EU ban on CO2-emitting cars was from 2022, 5 years after Tesla started selling the Model 3. The global trend toward EVs was largely started by Tesla showing that EVs were a viable product with real demand.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    Okay and the GUI was started by Apple as far as PCs. Where did that leave Apple as far as the PC market compared to Microsoft? And “disruption” doesn’t mean whet you think it means. Were any of the existing car manufacturers ever threatened by Tesla as far as market share and revenue like what happened to RIM and Nokia in the smart phone space?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Aloisius 2y ago

Musk didn't found Tesla. Presumably the two impressive companies are SpaceX and OpenAI? Or maybe the Boring Company?

zozbot234 2y ago

Tesla and the Chinese manufacturers are not playing in anything near the same league. Making cheap EV's is in no way "outcompeting" Tesla. Rather, Tesla has shown that it can handily outcompete traditional luxury auto companies, beating them at their own game.

scarface_74 2y ago
Someone hasn’t heard of the “Innovator’s Dilemma”. Tesla is far from the most profitable automaker and doesn’t even have the largest margins. Compare thier place in the automaker to say Apple’s place in the phone market
- zozbot234 2y ago
  The Innovator's Dilemma is about new, disruptive technologies causing large, established, incumbent firms to fail. Are the Chinese EV makers developing new technologies?
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    That’s exactly the opposite of the Innovator’s Dilemna. That’s the startup bros definition they use in pitch decks. But not Clay Christenson’s definition It’s about products coming into the market at the low end that are “good enough” when the current leaders “over serve” the market - “low end disruption”. Examples are PCs -> mainframes, Linux x86 servers -> Unix boxes, digital cameras/phones -> regular cameras and even smart phones to PCs Surprisingly enough, another facet of the Innovator’s dilemma is that low end disruption partially happens because the companies involved are not vertically integrated like Tesla and each part of the supply chain focuses on optimizing their components and have scale efficiencies because the low end market has more volume. We see that now with Chinese ODMs in the EV space. We saw that before with x86 PCs vs Macs and to an extent with smart phones. Apple is kind of unique as a vertically integrated company. But even they don’t make their own processors or manufacturer their own devices
tim333 2y ago
BYD seems to be in a similar league. Unit sales 3x tesla in the last quarter and: >... big event showcasing its autonomous driving tech on Feb. 10, rolling out driver assist features to EVs as low as $10,000. They also have a funky supercar while the Tesla one we still await: https://youtu.be/6M3QdN43yqI https://youtu.be/6M3QdN43yqI