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Also commented in a duplicate thread: No fan of DT, but this one does make sense (CAN chucked pennies years ago). If I read the article cited below correctly,

Also commented in a duplicate thread: No fan of DT, but this one does make sense (CAN chucked pennies years ago). If I read the article cited below correctly, penny minting has a smell of lobbying in a safe quiet corner: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/01/magazine/worthless-pennies-united-states-economy.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/01/magazine/worthless-pennie...

danudey 2y ago
I can't read the article you linked so I'm not sure if it mentions this, but IIRC one of the reasons for ditching the penny in Canada was that it cost more than a penny of copper to make a penny out of copper. Now when we buy something we get told a rounded-off price (e.g. $3.72 is told to us as $3.70) but if we pay digitally (i.e. by card) then we get charged the exact amount.
- cranky908canuck 2y ago
  Exactly. When this first came down, many Canadians (including me, true confessions) had their petty quibbles at the till about rounding (ok the rounding was sometimes wonky, hence the petty quibbles). Most of us have got over it.
- heavenlyblue 2y ago
  > but IIRC one of the reasons for ditching the penny in Canada was that it cost more than a penny of copper to make a penny out of copper. That's true for all coins, otherwise it would be an infinite money hack
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    > That's true for all coins, otherwise it would be an infinite money hack The government can print money if it wants to; it's just a bad idea.
  - tmtvl 2y ago
    Isn't that backwards? If a penny contains more than a penny's worth of copper you can make "infinite" money by exchanging some money for pennies, smelting them down into copper, selling the copper for more money than you exchanged in the first place, and repeating the process until you're as rich as Bezos.
    - jfim 2y ago
      The overhead of obtaining a large amount of pennies and smelting them likely makes the whole operation unprofitable, besides being illegal for defacing currency.
  - angoragoats 2y ago
    This is not correct. Most US coins (other than the cent and the 5 cent nickel) cost much less to make compared to their face value. For example, it costs just a bit less than 6 cents to make a dime, and just shy of 15 cents to make a quarter [0]. The "profit" that the government makes via minting coins and printing currency is known as seigniorage [1], and is reflected in the government's budget as revenue. [0] https://thehill.com/homenews/nexstar_media_wire/5136331-how-much-does-it-cost-to-make-a-penny-and-are-we-losing-money-on-other-coins/ https://thehill.com/homenews/nexstar_media_wire/5136331-how-... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seigniorage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seigniorage
subharmonicon 2y ago
Making fewer pennies means needing more nickels. Which have an even larger loss per unit: https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/10/business/cost-to-make-penny-nickel-dg/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/10/business/cost-to-make-penny-n...
- black6 2y ago
  Why would we need more nickels? Transactions will end up being rounded to the nearest nickel, which will end up being a dime on one side or a nickel on the other as the smallest necessary coin. Seems like it all evens out.
  - whynotmaybe 2y ago
    Both will be used more, the issue with the nickel is that it costs around 14¢ to make one.
    - sgerenser 2y ago
      I'd have to see a mathematical proof as to why nickels or dimes would be used more, I don't actually think that's the case.
      - svachalek 2y ago
        The only logical argument I can imagine is that people are using stacks of 5 pennies now routinely instead of nickels. But personally I never see that happening.
- MadcapJake 2y ago
  All of the "more nickels" noise is being paid for by the penny copper supplier.
  - JohnFen 2y ago
    The penny is mostly zinc. It's only 2.5% copper. Interestingly, the nickel is 75% copper -- so copper suppliers would strongly prefer to ditch the penny if it meant making more nickels.
ratg13 2y ago
Whether or not it’s a good idea doesn’t mean that it’s good to bypass the legislature. These initiatives are more about trying to assert absolute authority in people’s minds more than anything else. By choosing something that people might agree with he is subtly getting the public to allow him to have unchecked authority in other areas.
- technol0gic 2y ago
  someone in his camp is smart/devious/slick enough to advise him to test his autocracy by skipping the rules on things that are already obvious before moving on to skip the rules on more dubious and unpalatable endeavors I would liken it to testing the electric fences in different sectors like the velociraptors from Jurassic Park, starting with the sections that are hidden from cameras by bushes, before knocking down the ones out in the open.
  - sixothree 2y ago
    Don’t forget that upcoming national crisis that will require us to forgo having any rule of law.
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    I don't think it's "testing autocracy"; it's just getting a lot of things done as fast as possible. Trump made a lot of campaign promises. Contrast it with Labour over here in the UK, who've "only" been in power 6 months, and the difference is incredible.
    - throwaway743 2y ago
      It's Stephen Miller's take on a strategy out of Steve Bannon's playbook - Flood The Zone.
      - robertlagrant 2y ago
        I'm not saying it's legal, but I don't think the motivation is testing limits.
deepsun 2y ago
A lot of new orders make sense, just not the important ones.
- skapadia 2y ago
  Which ones make sense?
  - dkkergoog 2y ago
    [dead]
  - deepsun 2y ago
    Honestly just googled and couldn't find one :) Something in the line of removing two separate buttons to flush a toilet, different words of course just to illustrate the impact (negligent). But I also found one important order that does make sense: stop UNRWA funding. Don't remember any other though that would make sense.
    - sanswork 2y ago
      Why does removing two seperate buttons to flush a toilet make sense to you? I grew up in Canada which always had one before moving to England in the early 2000s where I first encountered two buttons and thought it was weird but 25 years later it makes a lot more sense to have different levels of water usage available.
bdcravens 2y ago
Likewise, I absolutely do not support Trump and his administration, but among him, Musk, and even RFK Jr, there are policy choices that I do support; they just tend to get drowned out by the cacophony of terrible choices.
- z3c0 2y ago
  Honestly, when looking back at the accomplishments of any administration, you'll likely find more things you agree with than disagree with. Presidents get a lot of ideas passing across their desks, generally posed by their subordinates. It's usually one big smear that overshadows it all (e.g. starting a never-ending war in the Middle East, implementing an extra-judiciary drone assassination program, ravaging the scientific institutions that help to make this country a hub of innovation, etc)
  - collingreen 2y ago
    I guess we're lucky if we only get one smear? Not very uplifting but maybe realistic?

danudey 2y ago

I can't read the article you linked so I'm not sure if it mentions this, but IIRC one of the reasons for ditching the penny in Canada was that it cost more than a penny of copper to make a penny out of copper. Now when we buy something we get told a rounded-off price (e.g. $3.72 is told to us as $3.70) but if we pay digitally (i.e. by card) then we get charged the exact amount.

cranky908canuck 2y ago
Exactly. When this first came down, many Canadians (including me, true confessions) had their petty quibbles at the till about rounding (ok the rounding was sometimes wonky, hence the petty quibbles). Most of us have got over it.
heavenlyblue 2y ago
> but IIRC one of the reasons for ditching the penny in Canada was that it cost more than a penny of copper to make a penny out of copper. That's true for all coins, otherwise it would be an infinite money hack
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  > That's true for all coins, otherwise it would be an infinite money hack The government can print money if it wants to; it's just a bad idea.
- tmtvl 2y ago
  Isn't that backwards? If a penny contains more than a penny's worth of copper you can make "infinite" money by exchanging some money for pennies, smelting them down into copper, selling the copper for more money than you exchanged in the first place, and repeating the process until you're as rich as Bezos.
  - jfim 2y ago
    The overhead of obtaining a large amount of pennies and smelting them likely makes the whole operation unprofitable, besides being illegal for defacing currency.
- angoragoats 2y ago
  This is not correct. Most US coins (other than the cent and the 5 cent nickel) cost much less to make compared to their face value. For example, it costs just a bit less than 6 cents to make a dime, and just shy of 15 cents to make a quarter [0]. The "profit" that the government makes via minting coins and printing currency is known as seigniorage [1], and is reflected in the government's budget as revenue. [0] https://thehill.com/homenews/nexstar_media_wire/5136331-how-much-does-it-cost-to-make-a-penny-and-are-we-losing-money-on-other-coins/ https://thehill.com/homenews/nexstar_media_wire/5136331-how-... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seigniorage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seigniorage

subharmonicon 2y ago

Making fewer pennies means needing more nickels. Which have an even larger loss per unit: https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/10/business/cost-to-make-penny-nickel-dg/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/10/business/cost-to-make-penny-n...

black6 2y ago
Why would we need more nickels? Transactions will end up being rounded to the nearest nickel, which will end up being a dime on one side or a nickel on the other as the smallest necessary coin. Seems like it all evens out.
- whynotmaybe 2y ago
  Both will be used more, the issue with the nickel is that it costs around 14¢ to make one.
  - sgerenser 2y ago
    I'd have to see a mathematical proof as to why nickels or dimes would be used more, I don't actually think that's the case.
    - svachalek 2y ago
      The only logical argument I can imagine is that people are using stacks of 5 pennies now routinely instead of nickels. But personally I never see that happening.
MadcapJake 2y ago
All of the "more nickels" noise is being paid for by the penny copper supplier.
- JohnFen 2y ago
  The penny is mostly zinc. It's only 2.5% copper. Interestingly, the nickel is 75% copper -- so copper suppliers would strongly prefer to ditch the penny if it meant making more nickels.

ratg13 2y ago

Whether or not it’s a good idea doesn’t mean that it’s good to bypass the legislature. These initiatives are more about trying to assert absolute authority in people’s minds more than anything else. By choosing something that people might agree with he is subtly getting the public to allow him to have unchecked authority in other areas.

technol0gic 2y ago
someone in his camp is smart/devious/slick enough to advise him to test his autocracy by skipping the rules on things that are already obvious before moving on to skip the rules on more dubious and unpalatable endeavors I would liken it to testing the electric fences in different sectors like the velociraptors from Jurassic Park, starting with the sections that are hidden from cameras by bushes, before knocking down the ones out in the open.
- sixothree 2y ago
  Don’t forget that upcoming national crisis that will require us to forgo having any rule of law.
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  I don't think it's "testing autocracy"; it's just getting a lot of things done as fast as possible. Trump made a lot of campaign promises. Contrast it with Labour over here in the UK, who've "only" been in power 6 months, and the difference is incredible.
  - throwaway743 2y ago
    It's Stephen Miller's take on a strategy out of Steve Bannon's playbook - Flood The Zone.
    - robertlagrant 2y ago
      I'm not saying it's legal, but I don't think the motivation is testing limits.

deepsun 2y ago

A lot of new orders make sense, just not the important ones.

skapadia 2y ago
Which ones make sense?
- dkkergoog 2y ago
  [dead]
- deepsun 2y ago
  Honestly just googled and couldn't find one :) Something in the line of removing two separate buttons to flush a toilet, different words of course just to illustrate the impact (negligent). But I also found one important order that does make sense: stop UNRWA funding. Don't remember any other though that would make sense.
  - sanswork 2y ago
    Why does removing two seperate buttons to flush a toilet make sense to you? I grew up in Canada which always had one before moving to England in the early 2000s where I first encountered two buttons and thought it was weird but 25 years later it makes a lot more sense to have different levels of water usage available.

bdcravens 2y ago

Likewise, I absolutely do not support Trump and his administration, but among him, Musk, and even RFK Jr, there are policy choices that I do support; they just tend to get drowned out by the cacophony of terrible choices.

z3c0 2y ago
Honestly, when looking back at the accomplishments of any administration, you'll likely find more things you agree with than disagree with. Presidents get a lot of ideas passing across their desks, generally posed by their subordinates. It's usually one big smear that overshadows it all (e.g. starting a never-ending war in the Middle East, implementing an extra-judiciary drone assassination program, ravaging the scientific institutions that help to make this country a hub of innovation, etc)
- collingreen 2y ago
  I guess we're lucky if we only get one smear? Not very uplifting but maybe realistic?