5 ms·

He founded (for some definition) the two most impressive American corporations of the century and tweeted a lot to build a direct connection to people.

lightbendover 2y ago
You may be referring to PayPal as one of those companies, but in case you’re not: Elon did not found Tesla.
- Fnoord 2y ago
  He didn't found PayPal either. He founded X.com, and they happened to merge with Confinity who owned the brand PayPal. Confinity existed before X.com (and had better brand recognition with PayPal), and if Musk would've had it his way, PayPal as brand wouldn't exist post-merge; it would have been called X.com.
- mattmaroon 2y ago
  I said "for some definition" because according a legal settlement he made with the others, he did found it.
scarface_74 2y ago
What’s impressive about Tesla? It’s already being outcompeted by companies in China, losing market share, and the other manufacturers are catching up. Besides that, he’s pissed off the demographics most likely to buy Teslas. It’s not like most Trump voters are buying EVs
- diogocp 2y ago
  > What’s impressive about Tesla? The fact that it's worth more than all the other automakers combined. > the other manufacturers are catching up Re-read what you wrote, and consider how preposterous it is that automakers founded more than a century ago are now "catching up" to a company that sold its first car in 2008.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    Well, Trump’s various meme coins also have a value… But, using pricing fundamentals, can you really justify Tesla’s value anymore than OpenAIs?
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    The fact that it's worth more than all the other automakers combined. to justify this “vapor worth” Tesla would have to sell about 89 billion cars :) …automakers founded more than century ago… look-up when BYD was founded…
  - selcuka 2y ago
    > The fact that it's worth more than all the other automakers combined. "Tesla stock price is too high imo" — Elon Musk (@elonmusk) May 1, 2020
  - mullingitover 2y ago
    > The fact that it's worth more than all the other automakers combined. The South Sea Company was also stupendously valuable until it wasn't.
- eagerpace 2y ago
  No doubt he needs to distance himself from the company so that his political career stops impacting it so directly. The business is over valued but still very impressive. Yes the software is controversial, but the hardware is fantastic and a decade ahead of what other domestic automakers are doing. They’re also profitable and have a long term vision to innovate unlike many industry peers who chase the government mandate du jour.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    There is nothing about Tesla that is even one year ahead of EVs. My wife and I travel a lot and haven’t owned our own car since late 2022 until late last year and tried a lot of different EVs. They were all just as good as the Tesla and had a better infotainment system. Tesla is not as profitable as Toyota, GM or Volkswagen and their profit is trending down. There is nothing justifying their market cap based on their profit or even 5 year expected profit. Tesla has made a lot of promises that they haven’t come close to fulfilling and Musk right now is the definition of regulatory capture
- slg 2y ago
  >What’s impressive about Tesla? There is this weird revisionist history now that Musk is hated to dismiss all Tesla's accomplishments as meaningless. The traditional auto industry would have never embraced EVs to the extent they have if someone did not disrupt the market in a way like Tesla did. That is both impressive and huge net positive for humanity in a way that is an extremely rare achievement for any startup.
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    facts! except did not disrupt the market in a way like Tesla did. I am not sure this really counts as distruption - not sure 8.1% of the market qualifies as distruption… perhaps it does if the trend continues like it did outside of the US
  - yodsanklai 2y ago
    > The traditional auto industry would have never embraced EVs to the extent they have if someone did not disrupt the market in a way like Tesla did. This isn't clear to me. Maybe in the US? but in Europe, there should be no new CO2-emitting cars by 2035. There's a global trend to move to EV due to climate change that has little to do with Tesla.
    - slg 2y ago
      You are pointing to a disrupted market as evidence that the market didn't need to be disrupted. A quick search suggest that EU ban on CO2-emitting cars was from 2022, 5 years after Tesla started selling the Model 3. The global trend toward EVs was largely started by Tesla showing that EVs were a viable product with real demand.
      - scarface_74 2y ago
        Okay and the GUI was started by Apple as far as PCs. Where did that leave Apple as far as the PC market compared to Microsoft? And “disruption” doesn’t mean whet you think it means. Were any of the existing car manufacturers ever threatened by Tesla as far as market share and revenue like what happened to RIM and Nokia in the smart phone space?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Aloisius 2y ago
  Musk didn't found Tesla. Presumably the two impressive companies are SpaceX and OpenAI? Or maybe the Boring Company?
- zozbot234 2y ago
  Tesla and the Chinese manufacturers are not playing in anything near the same league. Making cheap EV's is in no way "outcompeting" Tesla. Rather, Tesla has shown that it can handily outcompete traditional luxury auto companies, beating them at their own game.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    Someone hasn’t heard of the “Innovator’s Dilemma”. Tesla is far from the most profitable automaker and doesn’t even have the largest margins. Compare thier place in the automaker to say Apple’s place in the phone market
    - zozbot234 2y ago
      The Innovator's Dilemma is about new, disruptive technologies causing large, established, incumbent firms to fail. Are the Chinese EV makers developing new technologies?
      - scarface_74 2y ago
        That’s exactly the opposite of the Innovator’s Dilemna. That’s the startup bros definition they use in pitch decks. But not Clay Christenson’s definition It’s about products coming into the market at the low end that are “good enough” when the current leaders “over serve” the market - “low end disruption”. Examples are PCs -> mainframes, Linux x86 servers -> Unix boxes, digital cameras/phones -> regular cameras and even smart phones to PCs Surprisingly enough, another facet of the Innovator’s dilemma is that low end disruption partially happens because the companies involved are not vertically integrated like Tesla and each part of the supply chain focuses on optimizing their components and have scale efficiencies because the low end market has more volume. We see that now with Chinese ODMs in the EV space. We saw that before with x86 PCs vs Macs and to an extent with smart phones. Apple is kind of unique as a vertically integrated company. But even they don’t make their own processors or manufacturer their own devices
  - tim333 2y ago
    BYD seems to be in a similar league. Unit sales 3x tesla in the last quarter and: >... big event showcasing its autonomous driving tech on Feb. 10, rolling out driver assist features to EVs as low as $10,000. They also have a funky supercar while the Tesla one we still await: https://youtu.be/6M3QdN43yqI https://youtu.be/6M3QdN43yqI
Retric 2y ago
I’m wondering under what definition he “founded” Tesla rather than being the investor who took it over years later kicking the founders out? I’d give him SpaceX, but it definitely did better when he was paying less attention to it.
- fencepost 2y ago
  I wonder how much each company spends internally on damage control/mitigation re: Musk. I don't think he's as much of a chaos monkey as Trump, but I try not to pay attention to him so I could be missing things.
  - stevenAthompson 2y ago
    He is 100% of the reason I do not drive a Tesla today. I'm not the only person who feels this way. If he buys OpenAI he will be 100% of the reason I don't use it.
- ben_w 2y ago
  > I’m wondering under what definition he “founded” Tesla rather than being the investor who took it over years later kicking the founders out? I wouldn't call him a founder precisely because of this, but at the same time they produced, I forget the exact number, but less than 200 individual vehicles before he took over. The company was seen as a financial disaster, a pipe dream, and a money sink for a very long time, and he did actually make it profitable. (Although, given he's ranted about the difficulties of being a public company and having to listen to shareholders, I'm not sure how much this happened because of him rather than despite him).
  - BoiledCabbage 2y ago
    > The company was seen as a financial disaster, a pipe dream, and a money sink for a very long time, and he did actually make it profitable. Pretty much mainly on government money - without it, it would've gone bust long ago. Specifically the policies of Obama and those pesk environmentalists he seems to dislike so much.

lightbendover 2y ago

You may be referring to PayPal as one of those companies, but in case you’re not: Elon did not found Tesla.

Fnoord 2y ago
He didn't found PayPal either. He founded X.com, and they happened to merge with Confinity who owned the brand PayPal. Confinity existed before X.com (and had better brand recognition with PayPal), and if Musk would've had it his way, PayPal as brand wouldn't exist post-merge; it would have been called X.com.
mattmaroon 2y ago
I said "for some definition" because according a legal settlement he made with the others, he did found it.

scarface_74 2y ago

What’s impressive about Tesla? It’s already being outcompeted by companies in China, losing market share, and the other manufacturers are catching up. Besides that, he’s pissed off the demographics most likely to buy Teslas. It’s not like most Trump voters are buying EVs

diogocp 2y ago
> What’s impressive about Tesla? The fact that it's worth more than all the other automakers combined. > the other manufacturers are catching up Re-read what you wrote, and consider how preposterous it is that automakers founded more than a century ago are now "catching up" to a company that sold its first car in 2008.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  Well, Trump’s various meme coins also have a value… But, using pricing fundamentals, can you really justify Tesla’s value anymore than OpenAIs?
- bdangubic 2y ago
  The fact that it's worth more than all the other automakers combined. to justify this “vapor worth” Tesla would have to sell about 89 billion cars :) …automakers founded more than century ago… look-up when BYD was founded…
- selcuka 2y ago
  > The fact that it's worth more than all the other automakers combined. "Tesla stock price is too high imo" — Elon Musk (@elonmusk) May 1, 2020
- mullingitover 2y ago
  > The fact that it's worth more than all the other automakers combined. The South Sea Company was also stupendously valuable until it wasn't.
eagerpace 2y ago
No doubt he needs to distance himself from the company so that his political career stops impacting it so directly. The business is over valued but still very impressive. Yes the software is controversial, but the hardware is fantastic and a decade ahead of what other domestic automakers are doing. They’re also profitable and have a long term vision to innovate unlike many industry peers who chase the government mandate du jour.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  There is nothing about Tesla that is even one year ahead of EVs. My wife and I travel a lot and haven’t owned our own car since late 2022 until late last year and tried a lot of different EVs. They were all just as good as the Tesla and had a better infotainment system. Tesla is not as profitable as Toyota, GM or Volkswagen and their profit is trending down. There is nothing justifying their market cap based on their profit or even 5 year expected profit. Tesla has made a lot of promises that they haven’t come close to fulfilling and Musk right now is the definition of regulatory capture
slg 2y ago
>What’s impressive about Tesla? There is this weird revisionist history now that Musk is hated to dismiss all Tesla's accomplishments as meaningless. The traditional auto industry would have never embraced EVs to the extent they have if someone did not disrupt the market in a way like Tesla did. That is both impressive and huge net positive for humanity in a way that is an extremely rare achievement for any startup.
- bdangubic 2y ago
  facts! except did not disrupt the market in a way like Tesla did. I am not sure this really counts as distruption - not sure 8.1% of the market qualifies as distruption… perhaps it does if the trend continues like it did outside of the US
- yodsanklai 2y ago
  > The traditional auto industry would have never embraced EVs to the extent they have if someone did not disrupt the market in a way like Tesla did. This isn't clear to me. Maybe in the US? but in Europe, there should be no new CO2-emitting cars by 2035. There's a global trend to move to EV due to climate change that has little to do with Tesla.
  - slg 2y ago
    You are pointing to a disrupted market as evidence that the market didn't need to be disrupted. A quick search suggest that EU ban on CO2-emitting cars was from 2022, 5 years after Tesla started selling the Model 3. The global trend toward EVs was largely started by Tesla showing that EVs were a viable product with real demand.
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      Okay and the GUI was started by Apple as far as PCs. Where did that leave Apple as far as the PC market compared to Microsoft? And “disruption” doesn’t mean whet you think it means. Were any of the existing car manufacturers ever threatened by Tesla as far as market share and revenue like what happened to RIM and Nokia in the smart phone space?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Aloisius 2y ago
Musk didn't found Tesla. Presumably the two impressive companies are SpaceX and OpenAI? Or maybe the Boring Company?
zozbot234 2y ago
Tesla and the Chinese manufacturers are not playing in anything near the same league. Making cheap EV's is in no way "outcompeting" Tesla. Rather, Tesla has shown that it can handily outcompete traditional luxury auto companies, beating them at their own game.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  Someone hasn’t heard of the “Innovator’s Dilemma”. Tesla is far from the most profitable automaker and doesn’t even have the largest margins. Compare thier place in the automaker to say Apple’s place in the phone market
  - zozbot234 2y ago
    The Innovator's Dilemma is about new, disruptive technologies causing large, established, incumbent firms to fail. Are the Chinese EV makers developing new technologies?
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      That’s exactly the opposite of the Innovator’s Dilemna. That’s the startup bros definition they use in pitch decks. But not Clay Christenson’s definition It’s about products coming into the market at the low end that are “good enough” when the current leaders “over serve” the market - “low end disruption”. Examples are PCs -> mainframes, Linux x86 servers -> Unix boxes, digital cameras/phones -> regular cameras and even smart phones to PCs Surprisingly enough, another facet of the Innovator’s dilemma is that low end disruption partially happens because the companies involved are not vertically integrated like Tesla and each part of the supply chain focuses on optimizing their components and have scale efficiencies because the low end market has more volume. We see that now with Chinese ODMs in the EV space. We saw that before with x86 PCs vs Macs and to an extent with smart phones. Apple is kind of unique as a vertically integrated company. But even they don’t make their own processors or manufacturer their own devices
- tim333 2y ago
  BYD seems to be in a similar league. Unit sales 3x tesla in the last quarter and: >... big event showcasing its autonomous driving tech on Feb. 10, rolling out driver assist features to EVs as low as $10,000. They also have a funky supercar while the Tesla one we still await: https://youtu.be/6M3QdN43yqI https://youtu.be/6M3QdN43yqI

Retric 2y ago

I’m wondering under what definition he “founded” Tesla rather than being the investor who took it over years later kicking the founders out? I’d give him SpaceX, but it definitely did better when he was paying less attention to it.

fencepost 2y ago
I wonder how much each company spends internally on damage control/mitigation re: Musk. I don't think he's as much of a chaos monkey as Trump, but I try not to pay attention to him so I could be missing things.
- stevenAthompson 2y ago
  He is 100% of the reason I do not drive a Tesla today. I'm not the only person who feels this way. If he buys OpenAI he will be 100% of the reason I don't use it.
ben_w 2y ago
> I’m wondering under what definition he “founded” Tesla rather than being the investor who took it over years later kicking the founders out? I wouldn't call him a founder precisely because of this, but at the same time they produced, I forget the exact number, but less than 200 individual vehicles before he took over. The company was seen as a financial disaster, a pipe dream, and a money sink for a very long time, and he did actually make it profitable. (Although, given he's ranted about the difficulties of being a public company and having to listen to shareholders, I'm not sure how much this happened because of him rather than despite him).
- BoiledCabbage 2y ago
  > The company was seen as a financial disaster, a pipe dream, and a money sink for a very long time, and he did actually make it profitable. Pretty much mainly on government money - without it, it would've gone bust long ago. Specifically the policies of Obama and those pesk environmentalists he seems to dislike so much.