5 ms·

I would agree that the products coming out so far lack imagination, but hard disagree on the impact. LLMs have completely transformed multiple industries alread

I would agree that the products coming out so far lack imagination, but hard disagree on the impact. LLMs have completely transformed multiple industries already. In SWE, I would estimate that junior positions shrank by 70-80%, but even that is less extreme than what is going on in other industries. In marketing, the entire low-end to mid-tier market is gone. Instead of having teams working on projects for small to mid-sized companies, there's now a single Senior managing projects with the help of LLMs. I know multiple agencies who cut staff by 80-90% without dropping revenue. Translation (of books, articles, subtitles) was never well paid, even for very complex and demanding work. My partner did it a bit on the side, mostly justifying the low pay with some moral bla about spreading knowledge across cultures... With LLMs you can completely cut out the grunt part. You define the hard parts (terms that don't translate well), round out the edges and edge out the fluff, and every good translator becomes two to ten times more productive. Since work is usually paid by the page, people in the industry got a very decent (at least temporary) pay jump, I would imagine around 100%. Support is probably the biggest one though. It is important to remember that outsourcing ot India only works for English speaking countries. And even that isn't super cheap. Here in Germany, if you don't have back-up wealth, it is your constitutional right to get some support from the state (~1400 euro), but you are obligated to find a job as soon as possible, and they will try to help you find a role. Support was always one of the biggest industries to funnel people towards. I talked to a friend working there, and according to them the complete industry basically stopped advertising new positions, the only ones that are left are financial services. The rest went all in on LLMs and just employ a fraction of the support stuff to deal with things escalating enough. And that's not even touching on all the small things. How much energy is spent on creating pitch decks, communicating proposals, writing documentation etc? It probably goes up as far as 50% of work in large Orgs, and even if you can just save 5% of your time by using LLMs to phrase or organize, there is a decent ROI for companies to pay for them.

advael 2y ago
I think a lot of this is because the economic pressure is weak right now both on the side of labor and consumers, due to decades of severe upward wealth transfer. A lot of these companies are not improving or even maintaining their productivity or quality of service, and while there are probably some productivity gains for engineers, I suspect based on what I'm seeing that this is going to burn a lot of people out, as there is significant social pressure both from peers and employers to exaggerate this somewhat. People can have too heavy a workload for a decent amount of time before breaking. There's just no countervailing force to make these decisions that immediately painful for them. Sectors are monopolized, people are tired and desperate, tech workers are in a basically unprecedented bout of instability. The situation is super dark from a lot of angles, but I don't think it's really "the overwhelming usefulness of AI" that's to blame here. As far as I can tell, the biggest thing these technologies are doing is providing a cover story for private-equity-style guttings of various knowledge work verticals for short-term profit, which was kind of inevitable given that's been happening across the board in the larger economy, it's just another pretense that works for different verticals. There are cases where LLMs seem really genuinely useful (Mostly ones that are for and by SWEs, like generating documentation or smoothing some ramp processes in learning new libraries or languages) and those don't seem to be "transformative" at scale yet, unless we count "transforming" many products into buggier products that are more brittle and frustrating to interact with
dorgo 2y ago
>I know multiple agencies who cut staff by 80-90% without dropping revenue. I'm finding it hard to reconcile this with my own experiences. My whole team ( 5 people ) left last year ( for better pay I guess ) and the marketing agency in germany Im working for had to substitute them with freelancers. To offset the cost they fired the one guy who was hired to push the whole LLM AI topic. We managed to fill one junior position by offering 10k+ more then in their last job. The firm would love to hire people to replace the freelancers. We had to cut stuff lately. But mostly they closed the kitchen which wasn't used due to work from home policy. Definitely don't see any stuff reduction due to automation / LLM use. They still pay (external) people 60€ per written text/article. Because clients don't like LLM written stuff.
torginus 2y ago
Actually I have interacted with multiple translators in multiple industries and I haven't seen any disruption (although I agree with your statement that it was never well paid) - Synchronous translation at political/economic events still needs a personm as it ever did - LLMs are nowhere near the level to be able to translate fine literature at a high enough quality to be publishable - Translating software is still very hard, as the translator usually needs a ton of context/reference for commonly used terminology - we partnered with a machine translation company, and what they produced sucked balls. I have friends who work as translators, and we make use of translation services as a company, and I haven't seen the work going away.
achierius 2y ago
> I would estimate that junior positions shrank by 70-80% This just isn't true, it's nowhere close.
tonyedgecombe 2y ago
>LLMs have completely transformed multiple industries already. If this was true we would see the results in productivity and unemployment stats. We don't though, so far the effect hasn't registered.

advael 2y ago

I think a lot of this is because the economic pressure is weak right now both on the side of labor and consumers, due to decades of severe upward wealth transfer. A lot of these companies are not improving or even maintaining their productivity or quality of service, and while there are probably some productivity gains for engineers, I suspect based on what I'm seeing that this is going to burn a lot of people out, as there is significant social pressure both from peers and employers to exaggerate this somewhat. People can have too heavy a workload for a decent amount of time before breaking. There's just no countervailing force to make these decisions that immediately painful for them. Sectors are monopolized, people are tired and desperate, tech workers are in a basically unprecedented bout of instability. The situation is super dark from a lot of angles, but I don't think it's really "the overwhelming usefulness of AI" that's to blame here. As far as I can tell, the biggest thing these technologies are doing is providing a cover story for private-equity-style guttings of various knowledge work verticals for short-term profit, which was kind of inevitable given that's been happening across the board in the larger economy, it's just another pretense that works for different verticals. There are cases where LLMs seem really genuinely useful (Mostly ones that are for and by SWEs, like generating documentation or smoothing some ramp processes in learning new libraries or languages) and those don't seem to be "transformative" at scale yet, unless we count "transforming" many products into buggier products that are more brittle and frustrating to interact with

dorgo 2y ago

>I know multiple agencies who cut staff by 80-90% without dropping revenue. I'm finding it hard to reconcile this with my own experiences. My whole team ( 5 people ) left last year ( for better pay I guess ) and the marketing agency in germany Im working for had to substitute them with freelancers. To offset the cost they fired the one guy who was hired to push the whole LLM AI topic. We managed to fill one junior position by offering 10k+ more then in their last job. The firm would love to hire people to replace the freelancers. We had to cut stuff lately. But mostly they closed the kitchen which wasn't used due to work from home policy. Definitely don't see any stuff reduction due to automation / LLM use. They still pay (external) people 60€ per written text/article. Because clients don't like LLM written stuff.

torginus 2y ago

Actually I have interacted with multiple translators in multiple industries and I haven't seen any disruption (although I agree with your statement that it was never well paid) - Synchronous translation at political/economic events still needs a personm as it ever did - LLMs are nowhere near the level to be able to translate fine literature at a high enough quality to be publishable - Translating software is still very hard, as the translator usually needs a ton of context/reference for commonly used terminology - we partnered with a machine translation company, and what they produced sucked balls. I have friends who work as translators, and we make use of translation services as a company, and I haven't seen the work going away.

achierius 2y ago

> I would estimate that junior positions shrank by 70-80% This just isn't true, it's nowhere close.

tonyedgecombe 2y ago

>LLMs have completely transformed multiple industries already. If this was true we would see the results in productivity and unemployment stats. We don't though, so far the effect hasn't registered.