3 ms·

All we ever needed was in Snow Leopard. Everything since then (ok except maybe for SIP and XProtect) is bloatware.

boc 2y ago
Snow Leopard was truly the best. An actual OS release based around performance improvements under-the-hood instead of flashy, half-baked features.
andrewclunn 2y ago
Still can't believe we once had an operating system named OS X Panther. The puns...
- LiquidPolymer 2y ago
  I have an ancient laptop with Snow Leopard running. It keeps my Nikon Film Scanner useful since Nikon abandoned the software for these scanners rather abruptly. I've been a pro photographer since 1990 and the Kodachrome setting embedded within the Nikon scanner is fantastic for capturing the color and detail of this exceptionally sharp film.
  - Affric 2y ago
    Kodachrome was beautiful it’s a shame we will never see it’s like again. Do you still do film photography? Ektachrome?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
ryandrake 2y ago
SIP is quite terrible. Requiring an access level higher than root to access system files, and only processes that are signed by Apple and have special entitlements can have that access level? It's my computer, I should be at the top of the permissions totem pole, not Apple. If they're dead set on using signing to enforce the higher-than-root level, then I should be the one signing the executables. Fortunately, you can disable this crap.
- sitharus 2y ago
  SIP is wonderful. I no longer have to completely repave machines after my family install crapware because I know it can't mess with the base system. But for those of us who need that access we can disable it, with a bit of a dance to make it hard for people who _don't_ need it.
- astrange 2y ago
  Do you want OS updates to work or not? They can't work if you randomly edit files.
- favorited 2y ago
  > It's my computer, I should be at the top of the permissions totem pole, not Apple Here are the instructions to enable logging in as root, since privilege escalation seems inconvenient for you: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102367 https://support.apple.com/en-us/102367
  - CGamesPlay 2y ago
    This does not allow you to modify SIP-protected files.
    - favorited 2y ago
      Of course it doesn't, SIP would be pointless if it did. But since GP is so opposed to temporarily disabling SIP when they need escalated permissions, I assume they must feel the same way about needing to `sudo` and enter their password.
- bitwize 2y ago
  Then use Linux. "General purpose computing" is a niche market. Most buyers would be more than content with a machine that lets them run the specific software they need for their specific use cases, and otherwise protects them from executing malicious code. Joanna Rutkowska's "evil maid attack" is a real security threat; and one of the edges that Apple has in the marketplace is being one of the first vendors to design practical, evil-maid-resistant personal computers.
jaredklewis 2y ago
No love for APFS?
- bangonkeyboard 2y ago
  Not from me. A black box filesystem that can't even accurately say how much space is free and destroys mechanical hard drives with longer term use. There were other options to deal with HFS+'s 2038 problem.
caseyy 2y ago
Snow Leopard and Windows 7 are from a time when computers were made to serve the user. Then we discovered how much more money could be made by focusing on ad tech. The relationship between people and technology was so different in 2009. I miss it.
cosmic_cheese 2y ago
10.6.8 was solid (people often forget that 10.6 and the intermediate patches were a bit of a mess) but when I use it I definitely feel a few spots where some polish and QoL improvements would be welcome. Its theme’s dominant gray is also a bit too dark. I don’t mind SIP personally. It always unnerved me that any random executable was just a single admin password entry away from doing whatever it pleased. My ideal desktop OS environment would be something like a polished-up Snow Leopard using the brighter, more refined theme from 10.9 Mavericks (except with the flat scrollbars de-flattened). If I had that I don’t think I could use anything else.
nomel 2y ago
As a multi-computer user, "Continuity"[1] is magical. Being able to drag my cursor over to my other computer, drop some files, etc, is really great. [1] https://www.apple.com/macos/continuity/ https://www.apple.com/macos/continuity/
- cosmic_cheese 2y ago
  Its performance over wifi is also shockingly close to that of third party KB+mouse sharing software running hardwired which is crazy. Trying to use Synergy, etc over wifi is normally a laggy mess.
  - bsimpson 2y ago
    You can use Steam Link to render a VR environment on one device and project it into another's goggles over wifi. Or you can use Stadia and its compatriots to play 3D-rendered video games over WAN. The amount of low-latency bandwidth modern computers have available is mindboggling.
    - cosmic_cheese 2y ago
      Yep, I’ve used Sunshine and Moonlight to do exactly that. It’s super impressive, which makes it all the more confusing why Synergy and friends and send cursor movements and keystrokes (which I’d expect to be a stream of ints and chars) over WiFi without lagging.
markcerqueira 2y ago
I wonder how much of this sentiment is driven by Apple saying Snow Leopard was taking Leopard and focusing on performance and stability?
- astrange 2y ago
  It's certainly not true that it focused on stability even if Bertrand said it. Any kind of change reduces stability by introducing regressions. This includes performance improvements and it even includes other stability fixes.
astrange 2y ago
App auto saving was added in the next release Lion, I think you want that one.

boc 2y ago

Snow Leopard was truly the best. An actual OS release based around performance improvements under-the-hood instead of flashy, half-baked features.

andrewclunn 2y ago

Still can't believe we once had an operating system named OS X Panther. The puns...

LiquidPolymer 2y ago
I have an ancient laptop with Snow Leopard running. It keeps my Nikon Film Scanner useful since Nikon abandoned the software for these scanners rather abruptly. I've been a pro photographer since 1990 and the Kodachrome setting embedded within the Nikon scanner is fantastic for capturing the color and detail of this exceptionally sharp film.
- Affric 2y ago
  Kodachrome was beautiful it’s a shame we will never see it’s like again. Do you still do film photography? Ektachrome?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

ryandrake 2y ago

SIP is quite terrible. Requiring an access level higher than root to access system files, and only processes that are signed by Apple and have special entitlements can have that access level? It's my computer, I should be at the top of the permissions totem pole, not Apple. If they're dead set on using signing to enforce the higher-than-root level, then I should be the one signing the executables. Fortunately, you can disable this crap.

sitharus 2y ago
SIP is wonderful. I no longer have to completely repave machines after my family install crapware because I know it can't mess with the base system. But for those of us who need that access we can disable it, with a bit of a dance to make it hard for people who _don't_ need it.
astrange 2y ago
Do you want OS updates to work or not? They can't work if you randomly edit files.
favorited 2y ago
> It's my computer, I should be at the top of the permissions totem pole, not Apple Here are the instructions to enable logging in as root, since privilege escalation seems inconvenient for you: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102367 https://support.apple.com/en-us/102367
- CGamesPlay 2y ago
  This does not allow you to modify SIP-protected files.
  - favorited 2y ago
    Of course it doesn't, SIP would be pointless if it did. But since GP is so opposed to temporarily disabling SIP when they need escalated permissions, I assume they must feel the same way about needing to `sudo` and enter their password.
bitwize 2y ago
Then use Linux. "General purpose computing" is a niche market. Most buyers would be more than content with a machine that lets them run the specific software they need for their specific use cases, and otherwise protects them from executing malicious code. Joanna Rutkowska's "evil maid attack" is a real security threat; and one of the edges that Apple has in the marketplace is being one of the first vendors to design practical, evil-maid-resistant personal computers.

jaredklewis 2y ago

No love for APFS?

bangonkeyboard 2y ago
Not from me. A black box filesystem that can't even accurately say how much space is free and destroys mechanical hard drives with longer term use. There were other options to deal with HFS+'s 2038 problem.

caseyy 2y ago

Snow Leopard and Windows 7 are from a time when computers were made to serve the user. Then we discovered how much more money could be made by focusing on ad tech. The relationship between people and technology was so different in 2009. I miss it.

cosmic_cheese 2y ago

10.6.8 was solid (people often forget that 10.6 and the intermediate patches were a bit of a mess) but when I use it I definitely feel a few spots where some polish and QoL improvements would be welcome. Its theme’s dominant gray is also a bit too dark. I don’t mind SIP personally. It always unnerved me that any random executable was just a single admin password entry away from doing whatever it pleased. My ideal desktop OS environment would be something like a polished-up Snow Leopard using the brighter, more refined theme from 10.9 Mavericks (except with the flat scrollbars de-flattened). If I had that I don’t think I could use anything else.

nomel 2y ago

As a multi-computer user, "Continuity"[1] is magical. Being able to drag my cursor over to my other computer, drop some files, etc, is really great. [1] https://www.apple.com/macos/continuity/ https://www.apple.com/macos/continuity/

cosmic_cheese 2y ago
Its performance over wifi is also shockingly close to that of third party KB+mouse sharing software running hardwired which is crazy. Trying to use Synergy, etc over wifi is normally a laggy mess.
- bsimpson 2y ago
  You can use Steam Link to render a VR environment on one device and project it into another's goggles over wifi. Or you can use Stadia and its compatriots to play 3D-rendered video games over WAN. The amount of low-latency bandwidth modern computers have available is mindboggling.
  - cosmic_cheese 2y ago
    Yep, I’ve used Sunshine and Moonlight to do exactly that. It’s super impressive, which makes it all the more confusing why Synergy and friends and send cursor movements and keystrokes (which I’d expect to be a stream of ints and chars) over WiFi without lagging.

markcerqueira 2y ago

I wonder how much of this sentiment is driven by Apple saying Snow Leopard was taking Leopard and focusing on performance and stability?

astrange 2y ago
It's certainly not true that it focused on stability even if Bertrand said it. Any kind of change reduces stability by introducing regressions. This includes performance improvements and it even includes other stability fixes.

astrange 2y ago

App auto saving was added in the next release Lion, I think you want that one.