4 ms·

I'm not a big fan of my current provider, but I think I prefer them to the privacy concerns I'd have using Google. Almost every existing Google service is base

I'm not a big fan of my current provider, but I think I prefer them to the privacy concerns I'd have using Google. Almost every existing Google service is based on snooping people's browsing and serving up ads. They've made billions and billions of dollars doing it, and as the ISP they'd be able to snoop on everything. I'm sure they promise not to, but I just don't trust them, and I think there's too much money to be made for them not to do it.

ineedtosleep 14y ago
I don't buy this. Google would be offering you an internet service here. If you choose not to use their web services, great; you are free to not use them. If you're afraid Google are going to mine your traffic, use ssl, ssh, etc.. I don't see how this is any different with most of the ISPs monopolizing the market now.
avree 14y ago
You trust your current ISP? I've never understood these arguments. Google doesn't 'snoop' on your browsing—they anonymously track your habits to give you better ads as their business model. You used to get terrible ads on the internet—flashy popups, tricky spam ads, etc. Google has changed this, since they realized that they could avoid needing to trick people into click on ads by delivering ads that are actually relevant. Your current ISP can 'snoop' on everything you do too. Why don't you have this odd mistrust of them?
- thaumaturgy 14y ago
  Your own comment explains why: Google has built an empire upon the ability to efficiently compile information about people. I've worked for a small ISP. They are not nearly as competent in that regard. Most of the time, they're just hoping they can finish the day with fewer tech support tickets than they started the day with. I trust Comcast / SBC / others less -- especially since they voluntarily opted to cooperate with the RIAA/MPAA against their users' interests (http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/ISP-Six-Strikes-Plan-Arrives-in-July-118834 http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/ISP-Six-Strikes-Plan-Arri...) ... but I trust Google least of all, speaking just from a privacy standpoint. I realize that it's a little irrational, especially since, as you pointed out, the information is anonymous. (We think.) However, it's not so much that I'm concerned with what Google is doing with that information now; I'm concerned with what they might do with it later. Once the data has been collected, it's impossible to ever know for certain that it's been removed. Data collected about customers will survive middle management and CEOs and entire company boards. It may be sold at any time to anyone for any reason -- or given away freely. It may be used for purposes which I am not imaginative enough to conjure up. That probably sounds a little paranoid, but then again, when I was dialing in to eWorld in 1995, I could not have imagined that 17 years later the cable company would be my ISP and they'd be snitching on me if I downloaded unauthorized content. 17 years is not beyond the life time of current storage methods; who knows what will come next? Finally, Google can't survive forever on advertising. I frankly expected the online advertising market to be having greater problems by now than it is. Still, AdBlock Plus is popular and I've seen a few articles recently that are tentatively suggesting that buying advertising on Facebook probably isn't worth it. Google's building some actual consumer hardware now, which is super neat, but their core competency is in data mining. I think it would be foolish to believe that if the online advertising market started to really struggle, Google would just drop the thing that they're best at and move on to something else. So I don't think it's such a bad idea to treat Google with a little mistrust. (But their fiber project is really damn cool.)
- jlarocco 14y ago
  > You trust your current ISP? I didn't really say that. I said I trust them more than I trust Google. > they anonymously track your habits to give you better ads as their business model. That's practically the definition of snooping. Making it anonymous doesn't make it not snooping, and it doesn't make it any less uncomfortable. Also, unless you're a Google employee, you can't say for sure the tracking is done anonymously. > You used to get terrible ads on the internet—flashy popups, tricky spam ads, etc. Google has changed this, since they realized that they could avoid needing to trick people into click on ads by delivering ads that are actually relevant. FWIW, I don't get any ads on the internet, and haven't for a very long time. I guess that's another reason I object to Google's data collection. I'm not seeing their ads, so there's no reason for them to collect any info about my browsing. > Your current ISP can 'snoop' on everything you do too. Why don't you have this odd mistrust of them? True, but my current ISP doesn't have a multi-billion dollar business based on snooping browsing habits. If they ever start I'll probably switch ISPs.
JoshTriplett 14y ago
If everyone has unmetered gigabit, technologies like Tor and Freenet become significantly more usable. Rather than trusting my ISP, I'd rather use technologies that make it impossible for my ISP to violate my privacy expectations. Which would you rather have, "we promise we won't" or "we couldn't if we wanted to"? ("like Tor", but not exactly Tor since pervasive fiber from one provider would break Tor's threat model by allowing traffic analysis.)
hiker 14y ago
I find that position overly paranoid. You're already being snooped by your carrier provider, including your location and the online content you access. You're watched by CCTV cameras as you walk across city. You're car's registration is being automatically recognized by surveillance cameras as you drive on highways or if a police car happens to drive behind you. The list goes on and on. Welcome to life in the 21st century. From all of the above I find Google most trustworthy believe it or not. Do your own research but Google tries really hard to protect your privacy from both internal and external "snoopers".
- viraptor 14y ago
  This is slightly different kind of monitoring. When you go out, everyone can see you and your car. Lots of people fight for their right to take photos of other people, places, etc. without being stopped by law enforcement. It's stuff that other people see whether they want to sloppy on you or don't. Internet traffic is completely different. I expect it to stay private. There's no reason anyone should see my home browsing activity.
GR8K 14y ago
Google Fiber Privacy Notice http://fiber.google.com/legal/privacy.html http://fiber.google.com/legal/privacy.html The Google Privacy Policy applies to all of the services offered by Google Inc. and its affiliates, including Google Fiber Internet and Google Fiber TV, which are provided by Google Fiber, Inc. This Google Fiber Privacy Notice explains some important additional things we’d like you to know about information we collect when you visit Fiber websites or regarding use of Google Fiber TV and Google Fiber Internet (we call these together “Fiber”), and how that information is used. Additional information we collect To sign up for Fiber, users will be asked to provide an existing Google Account or to create a new one. You may be asked to provide additional personal information, such as billing address, service address or location, or bank account information when you sign up for Fiber. We may also obtain and use information about our Fiber users from outside sources for marketing purposes (such as commercially available demographic, geographic, or interest information). We may have a record of whether third party permission was required to install Fiber equipment for a Fiber user, as well as the third party’s name and contact information. In order to carry out a request to watch a pay-per-view program or other on-demand content, we may collect certain personal information, such as account or billing information and information about the product or service purchased. During the initial provisioning or installation of Fiber services, and during any subsequent changes, updates or attempts to resolve issues you bring to our attention, we may access, and collect technical information from or about, televisions, set-top boxes, computer and network hardware and software, modems, or other systems or devices used in connection with Fiber. How we use information we collect The Google Privacy Policy explains how we use information we collect. All information we collect about the use of Google Fiber TV (including use of programs and applications available through Google Fiber TV) may be associated with the Google Account being used for Google Fiber TV. Technical information collected from the use of Google Fiber Internet for network management, security or maintenance may be associated with the Google Account you use for Fiber, but such information associated with the Google Account you use for Fiber will not be used by other Google properties without your consent. Other information from the use of Google Fiber Internet (such as URLs of websites visited or content of communications) will not be associated with the Google Account you use for Fiber, except with your consent or to meet any applicable law, regulation, legal process or enforceable governmental request. This notice does not apply to the collection and use of information from other Google services (such as Gmail or Google Search) used while connected to Google Fiber Internet -- such information will be treated in accordance with applicable Google policies and terms of service. Information we share We do not share personal information with companies, organizations and individuals outside of Google except in the circumstances (such as with your consent, with domain administrators, for external processing and for legal reasons) as more fully set out in the Google Privacy Policy. We may share non-personally identifiable information publicly and with our partners – like content providers, publishers, advertisers or connected sites.
chermanowicz 14y ago
google is no better or worse than your ISP. you think browsing & serving ads is more invasive than knowing every single thing you see on the internet?

ineedtosleep 14y ago

I don't buy this. Google would be offering you an internet service here. If you choose not to use their web services, great; you are free to not use them. If you're afraid Google are going to mine your traffic, use ssl, ssh, etc.. I don't see how this is any different with most of the ISPs monopolizing the market now.

avree 14y ago

You trust your current ISP? I've never understood these arguments. Google doesn't 'snoop' on your browsing—they anonymously track your habits to give you better ads as their business model. You used to get terrible ads on the internet—flashy popups, tricky spam ads, etc. Google has changed this, since they realized that they could avoid needing to trick people into click on ads by delivering ads that are actually relevant. Your current ISP can 'snoop' on everything you do too. Why don't you have this odd mistrust of them?

thaumaturgy 14y ago
Your own comment explains why: Google has built an empire upon the ability to efficiently compile information about people. I've worked for a small ISP. They are not nearly as competent in that regard. Most of the time, they're just hoping they can finish the day with fewer tech support tickets than they started the day with. I trust Comcast / SBC / others less -- especially since they voluntarily opted to cooperate with the RIAA/MPAA against their users' interests (http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/ISP-Six-Strikes-Plan-Arrives-in-July-118834 http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/ISP-Six-Strikes-Plan-Arri...) ... but I trust Google least of all, speaking just from a privacy standpoint. I realize that it's a little irrational, especially since, as you pointed out, the information is anonymous. (We think.) However, it's not so much that I'm concerned with what Google is doing with that information now; I'm concerned with what they might do with it later. Once the data has been collected, it's impossible to ever know for certain that it's been removed. Data collected about customers will survive middle management and CEOs and entire company boards. It may be sold at any time to anyone for any reason -- or given away freely. It may be used for purposes which I am not imaginative enough to conjure up. That probably sounds a little paranoid, but then again, when I was dialing in to eWorld in 1995, I could not have imagined that 17 years later the cable company would be my ISP and they'd be snitching on me if I downloaded unauthorized content. 17 years is not beyond the life time of current storage methods; who knows what will come next? Finally, Google can't survive forever on advertising. I frankly expected the online advertising market to be having greater problems by now than it is. Still, AdBlock Plus is popular and I've seen a few articles recently that are tentatively suggesting that buying advertising on Facebook probably isn't worth it. Google's building some actual consumer hardware now, which is super neat, but their core competency is in data mining. I think it would be foolish to believe that if the online advertising market started to really struggle, Google would just drop the thing that they're best at and move on to something else. So I don't think it's such a bad idea to treat Google with a little mistrust. (But their fiber project is really damn cool.)
jlarocco 14y ago
> You trust your current ISP? I didn't really say that. I said I trust them more than I trust Google. > they anonymously track your habits to give you better ads as their business model. That's practically the definition of snooping. Making it anonymous doesn't make it not snooping, and it doesn't make it any less uncomfortable. Also, unless you're a Google employee, you can't say for sure the tracking is done anonymously. > You used to get terrible ads on the internet—flashy popups, tricky spam ads, etc. Google has changed this, since they realized that they could avoid needing to trick people into click on ads by delivering ads that are actually relevant. FWIW, I don't get any ads on the internet, and haven't for a very long time. I guess that's another reason I object to Google's data collection. I'm not seeing their ads, so there's no reason for them to collect any info about my browsing. > Your current ISP can 'snoop' on everything you do too. Why don't you have this odd mistrust of them? True, but my current ISP doesn't have a multi-billion dollar business based on snooping browsing habits. If they ever start I'll probably switch ISPs.

JoshTriplett 14y ago

If everyone has unmetered gigabit, technologies like Tor and Freenet become significantly more usable. Rather than trusting my ISP, I'd rather use technologies that make it impossible for my ISP to violate my privacy expectations. Which would you rather have, "we promise we won't" or "we couldn't if we wanted to"? ("like Tor", but not exactly Tor since pervasive fiber from one provider would break Tor's threat model by allowing traffic analysis.)

hiker 14y ago

I find that position overly paranoid. You're already being snooped by your carrier provider, including your location and the online content you access. You're watched by CCTV cameras as you walk across city. You're car's registration is being automatically recognized by surveillance cameras as you drive on highways or if a police car happens to drive behind you. The list goes on and on. Welcome to life in the 21st century. From all of the above I find Google most trustworthy believe it or not. Do your own research but Google tries really hard to protect your privacy from both internal and external "snoopers".

viraptor 14y ago
This is slightly different kind of monitoring. When you go out, everyone can see you and your car. Lots of people fight for their right to take photos of other people, places, etc. without being stopped by law enforcement. It's stuff that other people see whether they want to sloppy on you or don't. Internet traffic is completely different. I expect it to stay private. There's no reason anyone should see my home browsing activity.

GR8K 14y ago

Google Fiber Privacy Notice http://fiber.google.com/legal/privacy.html http://fiber.google.com/legal/privacy.html The Google Privacy Policy applies to all of the services offered by Google Inc. and its affiliates, including Google Fiber Internet and Google Fiber TV, which are provided by Google Fiber, Inc. This Google Fiber Privacy Notice explains some important additional things we’d like you to know about information we collect when you visit Fiber websites or regarding use of Google Fiber TV and Google Fiber Internet (we call these together “Fiber”), and how that information is used. Additional information we collect To sign up for Fiber, users will be asked to provide an existing Google Account or to create a new one. You may be asked to provide additional personal information, such as billing address, service address or location, or bank account information when you sign up for Fiber. We may also obtain and use information about our Fiber users from outside sources for marketing purposes (such as commercially available demographic, geographic, or interest information). We may have a record of whether third party permission was required to install Fiber equipment for a Fiber user, as well as the third party’s name and contact information. In order to carry out a request to watch a pay-per-view program or other on-demand content, we may collect certain personal information, such as account or billing information and information about the product or service purchased. During the initial provisioning or installation of Fiber services, and during any subsequent changes, updates or attempts to resolve issues you bring to our attention, we may access, and collect technical information from or about, televisions, set-top boxes, computer and network hardware and software, modems, or other systems or devices used in connection with Fiber. How we use information we collect The Google Privacy Policy explains how we use information we collect. All information we collect about the use of Google Fiber TV (including use of programs and applications available through Google Fiber TV) may be associated with the Google Account being used for Google Fiber TV. Technical information collected from the use of Google Fiber Internet for network management, security or maintenance may be associated with the Google Account you use for Fiber, but such information associated with the Google Account you use for Fiber will not be used by other Google properties without your consent. Other information from the use of Google Fiber Internet (such as URLs of websites visited or content of communications) will not be associated with the Google Account you use for Fiber, except with your consent or to meet any applicable law, regulation, legal process or enforceable governmental request. This notice does not apply to the collection and use of information from other Google services (such as Gmail or Google Search) used while connected to Google Fiber Internet -- such information will be treated in accordance with applicable Google policies and terms of service. Information we share We do not share personal information with companies, organizations and individuals outside of Google except in the circumstances (such as with your consent, with domain administrators, for external processing and for legal reasons) as more fully set out in the Google Privacy Policy. We may share non-personally identifiable information publicly and with our partners – like content providers, publishers, advertisers or connected sites.

chermanowicz 14y ago

google is no better or worse than your ISP. you think browsing & serving ads is more invasive than knowing every single thing you see on the internet?