4 ms·

>>"We" decided that 'privacy' is more important Umm, the importance of privacy was decided to prevent insurance companies from abusing your data & history to j

by toss1 2y ago

>>"We" decided that 'privacy' is more important Umm, the importance of privacy was decided to prevent insurance companies from abusing your data & history to jack up your rates or refuse coverage. >>us as individuals allowing our doctors to use existing LLMs to help them diagnose us What prevents you from giving your human doctor permission to upload your data/history into an existing LLM to assist your diagnosis? Just fill in the HIPPA form and hand it to their administrator... >>study shows human doctors don't effectively use LLMs even when they do have access YUP. That is the problem; they are not yet taking as full advantage as possible. Although I have read that it is spreading in radiology where there is solid evidence the AI models do better, so it might be just a question of medical professionals being conservative and waiting for more solid data...

Schiendelman 2y ago
"Was decided" - it's telling that you use passive voice here! Look at what I said - "We" decided that individuals are no longer allowed to choose. Doctors and administrators do not have a process for doing what you suggest. They believe the laws "we" passed don't allow them to.
- toss1 2y ago
  >> it's telling that you use passive voice here No, it is not telling anything. I used it as convenient shorthand in a comment to not cite the long chain of representative govt that implemented the HIPPA laws. >> Doctors and administrators do not have a process for doing what you suggest Yes, they do. Literally dealing with it right now in caring for an aging parent. Yes, some doctor offices/practices are a real pain in the arse about it and do what they can to not cooperate. Others are very efficient and helpful. I understand your frustration about the awful ones, but the rules have little to do with it, they'd likely be just as obstinate without the rules designed to constrain the abuses of insurance companies.
  - Schiendelman 2y ago
    Show me that process. I don't believe there is a HIPAA exemption process tgat exists to let your doctor use an LLM with your symptoms.
    - toss1 2y ago
      Fill in the HIPPA release form with "OpenAI, Inc", "Anthropic PBC", or whatever he wants to use. Just like if they were to use an outside radiology firm or you are transferring to a new doctor. And yes, I've seen physicians dodge the requirements and not release info when you've given all the legal permissions required, but that is on them, not on the regs. They're abusing the regs for their convenience or some other purpose, and it is damn frustrating. BUT, if your doctor does not want to use an LLM, there is indeed little you can do to convince him/her. On top of that, you would be utterly foolish to try to force the issue and make them use it when they are both unwilling and unskilled. As pretty much everyone here knows, all LLMs can make significant and well-disguised errors whilst sounding highly confident in the veracity of their answer. It takes an expert to validate any serious response, and experience with the LLMs and the types of errors they hallucinate counts a lot. Seems you'd be better off either getting your entire medical history and feeding it in yourself if you aren't concerned abt uploading it. Or, seeking another physician who IS familiar with LLMs and is actively using them. In any case, I wish you well in quickly finding a workable solution!
      - Schiendelman 2y ago
        First, it's HIPAA, not HIPPA. Second, that's not a process. You're referring to a form. Process is everything from the doctor being willing, to understanding what they can and can't do, to the administration supporting it. That process, as far as I can tell, does not exist in any medical system I've encountered.

by toss1 2y ago

Schiendelman 2y ago

"Was decided" - it's telling that you use passive voice here! Look at what I said - "We" decided that individuals are no longer allowed to choose. Doctors and administrators do not have a process for doing what you suggest. They believe the laws "we" passed don't allow them to.

toss1 2y ago
>> it's telling that you use passive voice here No, it is not telling anything. I used it as convenient shorthand in a comment to not cite the long chain of representative govt that implemented the HIPPA laws. >> Doctors and administrators do not have a process for doing what you suggest Yes, they do. Literally dealing with it right now in caring for an aging parent. Yes, some doctor offices/practices are a real pain in the arse about it and do what they can to not cooperate. Others are very efficient and helpful. I understand your frustration about the awful ones, but the rules have little to do with it, they'd likely be just as obstinate without the rules designed to constrain the abuses of insurance companies.
- Schiendelman 2y ago
  Show me that process. I don't believe there is a HIPAA exemption process tgat exists to let your doctor use an LLM with your symptoms.
  - toss1 2y ago
    Fill in the HIPPA release form with "OpenAI, Inc", "Anthropic PBC", or whatever he wants to use. Just like if they were to use an outside radiology firm or you are transferring to a new doctor. And yes, I've seen physicians dodge the requirements and not release info when you've given all the legal permissions required, but that is on them, not on the regs. They're abusing the regs for their convenience or some other purpose, and it is damn frustrating. BUT, if your doctor does not want to use an LLM, there is indeed little you can do to convince him/her. On top of that, you would be utterly foolish to try to force the issue and make them use it when they are both unwilling and unskilled. As pretty much everyone here knows, all LLMs can make significant and well-disguised errors whilst sounding highly confident in the veracity of their answer. It takes an expert to validate any serious response, and experience with the LLMs and the types of errors they hallucinate counts a lot. Seems you'd be better off either getting your entire medical history and feeding it in yourself if you aren't concerned abt uploading it. Or, seeking another physician who IS familiar with LLMs and is actively using them. In any case, I wish you well in quickly finding a workable solution!
    - Schiendelman 2y ago
      First, it's HIPAA, not HIPPA. Second, that's not a process. You're referring to a form. Process is everything from the doctor being willing, to understanding what they can and can't do, to the administration supporting it. That process, as far as I can tell, does not exist in any medical system I've encountered.