6 ms·

Steam makes its ban on in-game ads explicit

84 points by nabla9 2y ago

jb_briant 2y ago
As a gamedev who absolutely need to monetize its game, I think it's a great move from steam. In-game ads are a cancer, breaking the immersion and the game flow. That's part of why I don't wanna work on mobile gaming anymore, monetization is parasital to the experience or simply abusive thanks to the worst cognitive manipulations. https://www.deceptive.design/types https://www.deceptive.design/types The other reason I don't want to work on mobile is the dependance (read no choice) to apple and google, see what happens to Fortnite. On PC, you can distribute yourself and still be extremely successful (kudos to Vintage Story team). Players prooved countless times that they will buy and even fund experiences they enjoy or are promised to enjoy (which can lead to another set of problems but it's not the topic). So I prefer to rely on gamers buying my game.
- synthetic-echo 2y ago
  Very rare to see Vintage Story mentioned in the wild. It's tied with Project Zomboid for my favorite survival game. I wish more people knew about it.
  - jb_briant 2y ago
    Me Big PZ player, hugely influencial reference to my creative brain!
- nottorp 2y ago
  > So I prefer to rely on gamers buying my game. So why use "monetize" in the beginning of your post then? The term brings up IAPs, ads and deceptive subscriptions, not selling games.
  - jb_briant 2y ago
    First, I use Cambridge definition, which makes the usage of monetization correct. "to make money from something" Second, not all IAP are abusive, I didn't said nor meant that. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/monetize https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/monetize
    - nottorp 2y ago
      I don't know about that. As an old school gamer, I notice that the second IAPs show up the design of the game changes to accomodate them, and that is always hostile to the player's time if not wallet. I don't have any recent examples because I'm simply avoiding anything with IAPs but look at Guild Wars 2 and Path of Exile. Even if you sell "extra content" (not game expansions) as IAPs you end up with 20 extra leaders at $5 each for Civilization, or whatever Paradox is adding to all their games.
      - yurishimo 2y ago
        This is true to a certain extent but like anything, the industry also has differing opinions on it. Indie developers in the "idle" gaming space have been slowly abandoning the idea of locking progression behind IAP which has been nice to see. These "games" are very unique though in that part of the entire appeal is that you don't need to do much. Rushing through an idle game as fast as possible kind of defeats the purpose. Sure, the devs will gladly sell you some in-game currency so you can unlock everything in a week instead of 4 months, but those players are the minority. My "favorite" way to interact with a mobile game developer is an IAP that replaces optional ads. If your game has forced ads, I will not play it. I also will not play games with "optional" ads that aren't really optional in practice. For the few developers who respect my time, I'm content to throw them $5 or whatever to disable the ads when I interact with an optional part of the game, or as a thank you for not over monetizing their game when I reach the end.
        nottorp 2y ago
        That's a form of sale, if it's only one IAP.
- DanielHB 2y ago
  I currently work on a B2B SaaS company (not gaming) where we have quite the interesting problem: We want to move clients onto our cheaper plans. The profit margin on our cheaper offerings is higher (because of licensing agreements), so we have an incentive to try to get people to cheaper plans. It is the first time where monetization-maximization efforts align with user's best interests I ever worked on. The users who don't need the extra features need to be informed they are not using them and the ones who do use those features extensively should be left alone.
  - jb_briant 2y ago
    Sounds motivating to both have better margins while serving customers. It's the kind of tasks without downside: satiasfying.
indymike 2y ago
Forcing the user to watch video ads is a blight. Half of the time, the video ad is just being dumped onto game players because there's no relevant audience for it. Applause to Steam for stopping this.
elashri 2y ago
My biggest problem with games ads and ads in software/apps in general is that devs nowadays will add them even when you are paying for the product/game. So the old say that if you not paying then you are the product is no longer valid. Because in many scenarios now you are paying and are the product at the same time. The traditional arguments about monetization is now hard to swallow from consumer perspective because of the tendency to think, why not on adding ads.
- nottorp 2y ago
  It's easy. Just skip the games with IAPs and ads. Doesn't matter if they're free or for pay, just skip them.
  - elashri 2y ago
    That's what I do regarding games (I don't play that much anyway and tend to stick to few) but the trend is going in this direction for everything. And what does not have ads/IAPs where you purchase doesn't mean they will not include some down the line.
    - nottorp 2y ago
      On the app side they seem to be trying for subscriptions first. In a few years some "solo founder" will post something insightful about being able to sell offline applications as a one time purchase instead of trying to convince or trick people into subscribing. And they'll present it as a new discovery that will "revolutionize the software market".
  - junon 2y ago
    Problem is that you don't know this until you've bought the game, and that creates incentive for the developer to only include them after the refund period.
    - nottorp 2y ago
      Umm aren't the IAPs clearly marked? On the ios app store at least. On Steam I only buy based on 3rd party mentions/reviews so I don't really know what's written on the storefront if it's a free to play game because I've never been to the storefront of a free to play game. I never preorder btw. Okay, with two exceptions: FromSoft single player games (not getting the new multiplayer thingy) and Kojima. Until they burn me too.
dijit 2y ago
I understand the intention of the rule, but here is an interesting problem: I make a racing game, a realistic racing game, with real life tracks. Those tracks are laser scanned and officially licensed from the people who own the branding of the tracks. As part of the licensing deal, we cannot alter anything to do with advertising on the track. This has already caused some issues with, for example, Hockenheim where they have beer commercials on track, Which affects our age rating - and console submission. Functionally, we have no control over these advertisements, do you think we would be in violation of the rule? They say not right now, but the specific carve out is "if it seems out of place", which is vague enough to cause my "lawyers spend a lot of time on uncertainty" sense to tingle. These kinds of “sounds reasonable” rules are really cumbersome and bureaucratic when they face reality.
- meheleventyone 2y ago
  They literally cover racing games in the article but the money quote is: > Product placement is still in, so long as "such portrayals are not disruptive and are appropriate within the context of the game." It also notes that these rules are not new and merely the page is.
- volkl48 2y ago
  I take it you did not click on the article at all before commenting. Racing games with real advertisements on the cars are explicitly given as an example as the type of thing that is fine in the article.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Freak_NL 2y ago
  > Product placement is still in, so long as "such portrayals are not disruptive and are appropriate within the context of the game." Valve gives a racing game with real life sponsors on the cars as one example of what's okay […] There is your answer, right in the article. Of course, as a developer dealing with licensing issues you should ask for explicit clarification, but that's to be expected. And yeah, the age rating going up because you choose to show beer ads makes complete sense. That's not about advertising, but about the fact that you are including adult themes (like drinking alcohol) in a game. Even fictional beer like Duff or Pißwasser will trigger that.
readyplayernull 2y ago
But how will I know when to drink Nuka-Cola?
- MisterTea 2y ago
  When the console tells you to drink another verification can.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
nubinetwork 2y ago
> watch this ad to keep playing I've seen this model so much in android apps, it's disgusting. I'm glad they're banning it on steam.
- talldayo 2y ago
  Give F-Droid a try! There aren't quite so many games but all of them are Open Source and none contain ads. App quality skyrockets when you only download FOSS Android software instead of the Play Store garbage.
Ekaros 2y ago
Cynical side of me say that they are doing this because they are not getting their cut... On other hand I do support it. Although it seems to miss some weirder advertising models. Still, I don't think PC and Steam should be like mobile app stores.
jrootabega 2y ago
I think Borderlands: Game of the Year Edition Enhanced violates this ban, then. There's an ad for Borderlands 4 when you start up the game, and you have to start up the game in order to play.
- baud147258 2y ago
  and before the Borderlands 4 ad, it was an ad for BL 3
- haunter 2y ago
  so as Final Fantasy XV or Alan Wake. There are countless singleplayer AAA games with in-game ads not just gacha, fp2, and mobile games.
- t0k0l0sh 2y ago
  Cross-promotions are permitted. https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/marketing/advertising https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/marketing/advertising
  - jrootabega 2y ago
    I think that section only covers promotions on the Steam platform itself, or other platforms, not in-game advertising content.
    - t0k0l0sh 2y ago
      That policy covers in-game content too - the same page mentions: "Steam does not contain any paid advertising, nor are advertising models supported in games distributed on Steam. There are varying interpretations for what constitutes ‘advertising’ in a game, so the examples below are meant to help guide developers as to what is and is not supported on Steam." Under not supported: "Developers should not utilize paid advertising as a business model in their game" The Borderlands 4 adverts in BL3 are not paid adverts, and they don't advertise anything other than their own games.
      - 2y ago
propter_hoc 2y ago
Gotta say Valve is as close to a benevolent monopoly as I can think of. Great to see this.
- Akasazh 2y ago
  No shareholders!
  - SSLy 2y ago
    well, there's one.
  - ASalazarMX 2y ago
    Oh no! How will they create value on the Free Market(TM)?
- TiredOfLife 2y ago
  Large part of the benevolency is a direct result of losing court cases.
Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
I'm so happy this is a thing!
rolph 2y ago
Dont break the flow, make the ad into embedded part of the flow. create interactive objects that project ads, but are part of the game. e.g. TV, phones, vendingmachines, environmental noise, etc.
- davidbanham 2y ago
  The people buying your ads want to know how many people saw them. If your ad is embedded in 3D space, when did someone “see” it? If they were standing at a 10 degree angle for 6 seconds does that count? 11 degrees and 5 seconds? With video ads they want completion rates. With all ads they like people to be able to click through and engage further with the product. None of these questions have satisfying answers with embedded ads. That’s why they never took off.

84 points by nabla9 2y ago

As a gamedev who absolutely need to monetize its game, I think it's a great move from steam. In-game ads are a cancer, breaking the immersion and the game flow. That's part of why I don't wanna work on mobile gaming anymore, monetization is parasital to the experience or simply abusive thanks to the worst cognitive manipulations. https://www.deceptive.design/types https://www.deceptive.design/types The other reason I don't want to work on mobile is the dependance (read no choice) to apple and google, see what happens to Fortnite. On PC, you can distribute yourself and still be extremely successful (kudos to Vintage Story team). Players prooved countless times that they will buy and even fund experiences they enjoy or are promised to enjoy (which can lead to another set of problems but it's not the topic). So I prefer to rely on gamers buying my game.

synthetic-echo 2y ago
Very rare to see Vintage Story mentioned in the wild. It's tied with Project Zomboid for my favorite survival game. I wish more people knew about it.
- jb_briant 2y ago
  Me Big PZ player, hugely influencial reference to my creative brain!
nottorp 2y ago
> So I prefer to rely on gamers buying my game. So why use "monetize" in the beginning of your post then? The term brings up IAPs, ads and deceptive subscriptions, not selling games.
- jb_briant 2y ago
  First, I use Cambridge definition, which makes the usage of monetization correct. "to make money from something" Second, not all IAP are abusive, I didn't said nor meant that. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/monetize https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/monetize
  - nottorp 2y ago
    I don't know about that. As an old school gamer, I notice that the second IAPs show up the design of the game changes to accomodate them, and that is always hostile to the player's time if not wallet. I don't have any recent examples because I'm simply avoiding anything with IAPs but look at Guild Wars 2 and Path of Exile. Even if you sell "extra content" (not game expansions) as IAPs you end up with 20 extra leaders at $5 each for Civilization, or whatever Paradox is adding to all their games.
    - yurishimo 2y ago
      This is true to a certain extent but like anything, the industry also has differing opinions on it. Indie developers in the "idle" gaming space have been slowly abandoning the idea of locking progression behind IAP which has been nice to see. These "games" are very unique though in that part of the entire appeal is that you don't need to do much. Rushing through an idle game as fast as possible kind of defeats the purpose. Sure, the devs will gladly sell you some in-game currency so you can unlock everything in a week instead of 4 months, but those players are the minority. My "favorite" way to interact with a mobile game developer is an IAP that replaces optional ads. If your game has forced ads, I will not play it. I also will not play games with "optional" ads that aren't really optional in practice. For the few developers who respect my time, I'm content to throw them $5 or whatever to disable the ads when I interact with an optional part of the game, or as a thank you for not over monetizing their game when I reach the end.
      - nottorp 2y ago
        That's a form of sale, if it's only one IAP.
DanielHB 2y ago
I currently work on a B2B SaaS company (not gaming) where we have quite the interesting problem: We want to move clients onto our cheaper plans. The profit margin on our cheaper offerings is higher (because of licensing agreements), so we have an incentive to try to get people to cheaper plans. It is the first time where monetization-maximization efforts align with user's best interests I ever worked on. The users who don't need the extra features need to be informed they are not using them and the ones who do use those features extensively should be left alone.
- jb_briant 2y ago
  Sounds motivating to both have better margins while serving customers. It's the kind of tasks without downside: satiasfying.

indymike 2y ago

Forcing the user to watch video ads is a blight. Half of the time, the video ad is just being dumped onto game players because there's no relevant audience for it. Applause to Steam for stopping this.

elashri 2y ago

My biggest problem with games ads and ads in software/apps in general is that devs nowadays will add them even when you are paying for the product/game. So the old say that if you not paying then you are the product is no longer valid. Because in many scenarios now you are paying and are the product at the same time. The traditional arguments about monetization is now hard to swallow from consumer perspective because of the tendency to think, why not on adding ads.

nottorp 2y ago
It's easy. Just skip the games with IAPs and ads. Doesn't matter if they're free or for pay, just skip them.
- elashri 2y ago
  That's what I do regarding games (I don't play that much anyway and tend to stick to few) but the trend is going in this direction for everything. And what does not have ads/IAPs where you purchase doesn't mean they will not include some down the line.
  - nottorp 2y ago
    On the app side they seem to be trying for subscriptions first. In a few years some "solo founder" will post something insightful about being able to sell offline applications as a one time purchase instead of trying to convince or trick people into subscribing. And they'll present it as a new discovery that will "revolutionize the software market".
- junon 2y ago
  Problem is that you don't know this until you've bought the game, and that creates incentive for the developer to only include them after the refund period.
  - nottorp 2y ago
    Umm aren't the IAPs clearly marked? On the ios app store at least. On Steam I only buy based on 3rd party mentions/reviews so I don't really know what's written on the storefront if it's a free to play game because I've never been to the storefront of a free to play game. I never preorder btw. Okay, with two exceptions: FromSoft single player games (not getting the new multiplayer thingy) and Kojima. Until they burn me too.

dijit 2y ago

I understand the intention of the rule, but here is an interesting problem: I make a racing game, a realistic racing game, with real life tracks. Those tracks are laser scanned and officially licensed from the people who own the branding of the tracks. As part of the licensing deal, we cannot alter anything to do with advertising on the track. This has already caused some issues with, for example, Hockenheim where they have beer commercials on track, Which affects our age rating - and console submission. Functionally, we have no control over these advertisements, do you think we would be in violation of the rule? They say not right now, but the specific carve out is "if it seems out of place", which is vague enough to cause my "lawyers spend a lot of time on uncertainty" sense to tingle. These kinds of “sounds reasonable” rules are really cumbersome and bureaucratic when they face reality.

meheleventyone 2y ago
They literally cover racing games in the article but the money quote is: > Product placement is still in, so long as "such portrayals are not disruptive and are appropriate within the context of the game." It also notes that these rules are not new and merely the page is.
volkl48 2y ago
I take it you did not click on the article at all before commenting. Racing games with real advertisements on the cars are explicitly given as an example as the type of thing that is fine in the article.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Freak_NL 2y ago
> Product placement is still in, so long as "such portrayals are not disruptive and are appropriate within the context of the game." Valve gives a racing game with real life sponsors on the cars as one example of what's okay […] There is your answer, right in the article. Of course, as a developer dealing with licensing issues you should ask for explicit clarification, but that's to be expected. And yeah, the age rating going up because you choose to show beer ads makes complete sense. That's not about advertising, but about the fact that you are including adult themes (like drinking alcohol) in a game. Even fictional beer like Duff or Pißwasser will trigger that.

readyplayernull 2y ago

But how will I know when to drink Nuka-Cola?

MisterTea 2y ago
When the console tells you to drink another verification can.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

nubinetwork 2y ago

> watch this ad to keep playing I've seen this model so much in android apps, it's disgusting. I'm glad they're banning it on steam.

talldayo 2y ago
Give F-Droid a try! There aren't quite so many games but all of them are Open Source and none contain ads. App quality skyrockets when you only download FOSS Android software instead of the Play Store garbage.

Ekaros 2y ago

Cynical side of me say that they are doing this because they are not getting their cut... On other hand I do support it. Although it seems to miss some weirder advertising models. Still, I don't think PC and Steam should be like mobile app stores.

jrootabega 2y ago

I think Borderlands: Game of the Year Edition Enhanced violates this ban, then. There's an ad for Borderlands 4 when you start up the game, and you have to start up the game in order to play.

baud147258 2y ago
and before the Borderlands 4 ad, it was an ad for BL 3
haunter 2y ago
so as Final Fantasy XV or Alan Wake. There are countless singleplayer AAA games with in-game ads not just gacha, fp2, and mobile games.
t0k0l0sh 2y ago
Cross-promotions are permitted. https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/marketing/advertising https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/marketing/advertising
- jrootabega 2y ago
  I think that section only covers promotions on the Steam platform itself, or other platforms, not in-game advertising content.
  - t0k0l0sh 2y ago
    That policy covers in-game content too - the same page mentions: "Steam does not contain any paid advertising, nor are advertising models supported in games distributed on Steam. There are varying interpretations for what constitutes ‘advertising’ in a game, so the examples below are meant to help guide developers as to what is and is not supported on Steam." Under not supported: "Developers should not utilize paid advertising as a business model in their game" The Borderlands 4 adverts in BL3 are not paid adverts, and they don't advertise anything other than their own games.
    - 2y ago

propter_hoc 2y ago

Gotta say Valve is as close to a benevolent monopoly as I can think of. Great to see this.

Akasazh 2y ago
No shareholders!
- SSLy 2y ago
  well, there's one.
- ASalazarMX 2y ago
  Oh no! How will they create value on the Free Market(TM)?
TiredOfLife 2y ago
Large part of the benevolency is a direct result of losing court cases.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago

I'm so happy this is a thing!

rolph 2y ago

Dont break the flow, make the ad into embedded part of the flow. create interactive objects that project ads, but are part of the game. e.g. TV, phones, vendingmachines, environmental noise, etc.

davidbanham 2y ago
The people buying your ads want to know how many people saw them. If your ad is embedded in 3D space, when did someone “see” it? If they were standing at a 10 degree angle for 6 seconds does that count? 11 degrees and 5 seconds? With video ads they want completion rates. With all ads they like people to be able to click through and engage further with the product. None of these questions have satisfying answers with embedded ads. That’s why they never took off.