8 ms·

It's literally illegal. In the EU, it's illegal to sell cars that don't have back camera, not beeping if seatbelt not fastened, and not beeping if speed limit

by tomp 2y ago

It's literally illegal. In the EU, it's illegal to sell cars that don't have back camera, not beeping if seatbelt not fastened, and not beeping if speed limit is exceeded.

plasticchris 2y ago
Backup camera is also required in the USA, along with the seatbelt chimes.
mcv 2y ago
Our new car beeps constantly for unclear reasons and doesn't explain why. It's not helpful and I'd like it to stop.
- efitz 2y ago
  Try buckling all your back seat belts. Recently US cars are required to annoy you if back seat passengers are not buckled in; many (most?) manufacturers are not putting in weight sensors to see if there are rear seat passengers present; they’re just putting in seat belt buckled sensors.
  - mcv 2y ago
    Our previous car did beep when there was any weight on the passenger seat while the seat belt was unbuckled, which is extremely annoying when you just put a bag there. Another annoying thing was that in order to use the navigation from the car, you first had to agree to obey the traffic rules or something. I already do that by participating in traffic. I don't think this incessant beeping for every little thing, nor requiring clicking though extra screens, is useful and I doubt it adds anything to safety. It's distracting and annoying and I start thinking about why the car is beeping this time, instead of focusing on the traffic. That's the really big problem with this design: the car should not draw attention to itself; my attention should be on the road. Also, when it does beep, it should at the very least make clear why, and you should be able to turn it off.
    - ryandrake 2y ago
      I remember when i was a kid and the cars started dinging when your seat belt was unbuckled, and my family (and everyone we knew) went out and bought empty buckles that just plugged into the seat belt latch, to defeat the dinging and let you drive without your seatbelt in peace. I wonder if these still work to defeat the more and more aggressive warnings.
      - mcv 2y ago
        When I was a kid, cars didn't even have seat belts in the back. I'm all for the extra safety, but if they make safety too annoying, people will start looking for workarounds.
        mrguyorama 2y ago
        People will look for workarounds regardless. Some people just become irrationally incensed if you suggest that they aren't perfect. It's really frustrating. There's an entire subset of the population that lives life explicitly thinking "Rules are for everyone else and I deserve everything" Next time you go to the grocery store look at how many carts don't get put away. The exact same people who do that will freak out and start a war if their car gets scratched by a loose cart. Don't believe my takes? Go to a local city or school board meeting and see the utter insanity that comes from people that you will be shocked to learn are a middle manager at some company or own their own small and successful business. Some people genuinely don't get that the world isn't about them, and I think we have drastically underestimated the percentage.
      - ornornor 2y ago
        > drive without your seatbelt in peace That’s one very stupid way to die.
        ryandrake 2y ago
        You'd be surprised how many "normal" people initially revolted against seatbelt laws and protested through noncompliance. Even the people who accepted that seatbelt use was safer, refused to use them because of the usual "The Government Won't Tell Me What To Do!" mentality.
- onetokeoverthe 2y ago
  maybe find the speaker chime and execute it live on stream.
- neor 2y ago
  I've had a new Toyota Corolla over the weekend, and the beeps were driving me nuts. The car reads signs, and beeps everytime it detects a change in speed limit. If you go over the speed limit, even if its 1 km/h the car starts beeping as well. I never drive really fast, when the car says I'm driving 1 KM over the limit my GPS speed usually is 5 below. This makes the signals extra annoying. They should have used beeps when you're 10 or more over the speed limit or something like that so you don't get spammed with notifications all the time. The system being as it is, I'm 100% sure I will get it removed by a tuning shop.
  - mrcsharp 2y ago
    I noticed this ~5KM/H difference between my GPS and the speedometer of a Toyota 2014 model. I checked and it had to do with liability apparently[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/CarsAustralia/comments/10d4g0b/speedometer_off_by_3km/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CarsAustralia/comments/10d4g0b/spee...
    - mcv 2y ago
      It has always been common for cars to estimate your speed a bit on the high side, because there's always a margin of error, and that way you don't accidentally go over the speed limit while thinking you're still below it. But for a car to start beeping (or worse, interfering), they'd better use that margin of error in the other direction.
      - mrcsharp 2y ago
        I can't stand all the beeping. It is wild how police are so against using mobile phones while driving (and they are right) but allow all these other distractions to run rampant in modern cars and distract drivers. How we allow massive touch screens in Tesla's and other modern cars is beyond me.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    I normally drive a 15 year old car, and recently traveled and had to rent a car at my destination. This thing was infuriating and constantly annoying in so many ways. I had to return the first one because I couldn't figure out the touch screen (!!), and the replacement I got just beeped and booped constantly for reasons unknown. I couldn't even figure out how to use the radio. It kept asking me to log in (to what??) just to use the nav system. Of all the signals of "I'm getting elderly," who knew I'd first start feeling like this from trying to use a car?
- guappa 2y ago
  My toyota is constantly beeping. I especially love the collision detection that goes "BIBIBIBIBIBI" and the screen goes red saying "BREAK NOW!". All of this happens regularly when I'm dodging parked cars in small streets at very low speed. The message appears about half a second too late anyway (assuming I have instant reaction time, which I doubt). I'm glad it doesn't break automatically at least. Also it reads speeds signs but it has no idea when they no longer apply, or doesn't read the new one, or reads a speed sign from an adjacent road, or sometimes just imagines it.
  - tobyhinloopen 2y ago
    My volvo DID brake automatically and it pissed me off multiple times.
    - guappa 2y ago
      That sounds awful. Especially since not once the alert triggered when it should have.
smatija 2y ago
Note that this is only for when buying new cars - used models can still be sold and bought without these "niceties". The next car I am going to buy is probably going to be older than my current one.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  > The next car I am going to buy is probably going to be older than my current one. I've also come to this bizarre conclusion. Cars are rapidly regressing. I currently drive an '09, and yearly maintenance costs have begun to approach the value of the car. I'm not sure how long I can economically keep it on the road, but what would I replace it with? A '24 Driving-IoT-Nighmare?
  - Reubachi 2y ago
    Grass ain't always greener. Depending on your locale, you're going to need to replace all suspension, steering, exhaust, frame peices etc. on that 09' car you bought used for 6. Will quickly approach 20k in time and money, and at that point, most people bite the bullet and deal with new car bullshit/payments.
    - sizzle 2y ago
      Also do a transmission drain and fill only not a flush which will distribute all the gunk around and mess things up.
    - smatija 2y ago
      Bought a 10 years old clio with 80k km, which needed like 500€ service when bought. Now at 15 years and 200k km still running strong, with less than 300€ service costs yearly.
      - Reubachi 2y ago
        I'm jealous. I live in salt belt in US, have a 14 year old hatchback. This year alone I have had to replace 2 of the 6 control arms, rear rotors, all pads, parking brake cable (ugh), strut/shock assembly up front , clutch and brake masters, rear wheel hubs, trailing arms. That alone is like 4k in my time, nevermind the parts or if I brought them to a shop. last year I did clutch job, vent/purge valves, intake cleaning, timing job....easily 5k I am very jealous you have somehow avoided these things with the Clio. Idk how mazda managed to make my hatch out of seemingly rust.
cma 2y ago
Same in US: your car has externalities on others. Even if it was a one seater you'd up everyone else's liability insurance without the chime.
- tomp 2y ago
  do you have any studies that back that up? IMO the chime, if anything, decreases safety (it interrupts the driver's attention)
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
mrguyorama 2y ago
The backup camera is entirely analogue, zero computer required. All manufacturers use the same couple of camera modules which output standard composite video, which is why even nice cars have obvious analogue artifacts and distortions. Even OEM headunits usually just consume a standard composite video input and switch to it when it has a signal. This information is valid up until at least 2020, but it might be changing as cars get more advanced cameras and stupid-er head units. I bet Tesla just uses their existing cameras. >not beeping if seatbelt not fastened Also trivial to do with analogue electronics, which we have done for decades. speed limit warnings are a dead end though. Impossible to do without some sort of technology to know what the "current" speed limit is.
webnrrd2k 2y ago
Don't they sell used cars in Europe?

by tomp 2y ago

It's literally illegal. In the EU, it's illegal to sell cars that don't have back camera, not beeping if seatbelt not fastened, and not beeping if speed limit is exceeded.

plasticchris 2y ago

Backup camera is also required in the USA, along with the seatbelt chimes.

mcv 2y ago

Our new car beeps constantly for unclear reasons and doesn't explain why. It's not helpful and I'd like it to stop.

efitz 2y ago
Try buckling all your back seat belts. Recently US cars are required to annoy you if back seat passengers are not buckled in; many (most?) manufacturers are not putting in weight sensors to see if there are rear seat passengers present; they’re just putting in seat belt buckled sensors.
- mcv 2y ago
  Our previous car did beep when there was any weight on the passenger seat while the seat belt was unbuckled, which is extremely annoying when you just put a bag there. Another annoying thing was that in order to use the navigation from the car, you first had to agree to obey the traffic rules or something. I already do that by participating in traffic. I don't think this incessant beeping for every little thing, nor requiring clicking though extra screens, is useful and I doubt it adds anything to safety. It's distracting and annoying and I start thinking about why the car is beeping this time, instead of focusing on the traffic. That's the really big problem with this design: the car should not draw attention to itself; my attention should be on the road. Also, when it does beep, it should at the very least make clear why, and you should be able to turn it off.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    I remember when i was a kid and the cars started dinging when your seat belt was unbuckled, and my family (and everyone we knew) went out and bought empty buckles that just plugged into the seat belt latch, to defeat the dinging and let you drive without your seatbelt in peace. I wonder if these still work to defeat the more and more aggressive warnings.
    - mcv 2y ago
      When I was a kid, cars didn't even have seat belts in the back. I'm all for the extra safety, but if they make safety too annoying, people will start looking for workarounds.
      - mrguyorama 2y ago
        People will look for workarounds regardless. Some people just become irrationally incensed if you suggest that they aren't perfect. It's really frustrating. There's an entire subset of the population that lives life explicitly thinking "Rules are for everyone else and I deserve everything" Next time you go to the grocery store look at how many carts don't get put away. The exact same people who do that will freak out and start a war if their car gets scratched by a loose cart. Don't believe my takes? Go to a local city or school board meeting and see the utter insanity that comes from people that you will be shocked to learn are a middle manager at some company or own their own small and successful business. Some people genuinely don't get that the world isn't about them, and I think we have drastically underestimated the percentage.
    - ornornor 2y ago
      > drive without your seatbelt in peace That’s one very stupid way to die.
      - ryandrake 2y ago
        You'd be surprised how many "normal" people initially revolted against seatbelt laws and protested through noncompliance. Even the people who accepted that seatbelt use was safer, refused to use them because of the usual "The Government Won't Tell Me What To Do!" mentality.
onetokeoverthe 2y ago
maybe find the speaker chime and execute it live on stream.
neor 2y ago
I've had a new Toyota Corolla over the weekend, and the beeps were driving me nuts. The car reads signs, and beeps everytime it detects a change in speed limit. If you go over the speed limit, even if its 1 km/h the car starts beeping as well. I never drive really fast, when the car says I'm driving 1 KM over the limit my GPS speed usually is 5 below. This makes the signals extra annoying. They should have used beeps when you're 10 or more over the speed limit or something like that so you don't get spammed with notifications all the time. The system being as it is, I'm 100% sure I will get it removed by a tuning shop.
- mrcsharp 2y ago
  I noticed this ~5KM/H difference between my GPS and the speedometer of a Toyota 2014 model. I checked and it had to do with liability apparently[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/CarsAustralia/comments/10d4g0b/speedometer_off_by_3km/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CarsAustralia/comments/10d4g0b/spee...
  - mcv 2y ago
    It has always been common for cars to estimate your speed a bit on the high side, because there's always a margin of error, and that way you don't accidentally go over the speed limit while thinking you're still below it. But for a car to start beeping (or worse, interfering), they'd better use that margin of error in the other direction.
    - mrcsharp 2y ago
      I can't stand all the beeping. It is wild how police are so against using mobile phones while driving (and they are right) but allow all these other distractions to run rampant in modern cars and distract drivers. How we allow massive touch screens in Tesla's and other modern cars is beyond me.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  I normally drive a 15 year old car, and recently traveled and had to rent a car at my destination. This thing was infuriating and constantly annoying in so many ways. I had to return the first one because I couldn't figure out the touch screen (!!), and the replacement I got just beeped and booped constantly for reasons unknown. I couldn't even figure out how to use the radio. It kept asking me to log in (to what??) just to use the nav system. Of all the signals of "I'm getting elderly," who knew I'd first start feeling like this from trying to use a car?
guappa 2y ago
My toyota is constantly beeping. I especially love the collision detection that goes "BIBIBIBIBIBI" and the screen goes red saying "BREAK NOW!". All of this happens regularly when I'm dodging parked cars in small streets at very low speed. The message appears about half a second too late anyway (assuming I have instant reaction time, which I doubt). I'm glad it doesn't break automatically at least. Also it reads speeds signs but it has no idea when they no longer apply, or doesn't read the new one, or reads a speed sign from an adjacent road, or sometimes just imagines it.
- tobyhinloopen 2y ago
  My volvo DID brake automatically and it pissed me off multiple times.
  - guappa 2y ago
    That sounds awful. Especially since not once the alert triggered when it should have.

smatija 2y ago

Note that this is only for when buying new cars - used models can still be sold and bought without these "niceties". The next car I am going to buy is probably going to be older than my current one.

ryandrake 2y ago
> The next car I am going to buy is probably going to be older than my current one. I've also come to this bizarre conclusion. Cars are rapidly regressing. I currently drive an '09, and yearly maintenance costs have begun to approach the value of the car. I'm not sure how long I can economically keep it on the road, but what would I replace it with? A '24 Driving-IoT-Nighmare?
- Reubachi 2y ago
  Grass ain't always greener. Depending on your locale, you're going to need to replace all suspension, steering, exhaust, frame peices etc. on that 09' car you bought used for 6. Will quickly approach 20k in time and money, and at that point, most people bite the bullet and deal with new car bullshit/payments.
  - sizzle 2y ago
    Also do a transmission drain and fill only not a flush which will distribute all the gunk around and mess things up.
  - smatija 2y ago
    Bought a 10 years old clio with 80k km, which needed like 500€ service when bought. Now at 15 years and 200k km still running strong, with less than 300€ service costs yearly.
    - Reubachi 2y ago
      I'm jealous. I live in salt belt in US, have a 14 year old hatchback. This year alone I have had to replace 2 of the 6 control arms, rear rotors, all pads, parking brake cable (ugh), strut/shock assembly up front , clutch and brake masters, rear wheel hubs, trailing arms. That alone is like 4k in my time, nevermind the parts or if I brought them to a shop. last year I did clutch job, vent/purge valves, intake cleaning, timing job....easily 5k I am very jealous you have somehow avoided these things with the Clio. Idk how mazda managed to make my hatch out of seemingly rust.

cma 2y ago

Same in US: your car has externalities on others. Even if it was a one seater you'd up everyone else's liability insurance without the chime.

tomp 2y ago
do you have any studies that back that up? IMO the chime, if anything, decreases safety (it interrupts the driver's attention)
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

mrguyorama 2y ago

The backup camera is entirely analogue, zero computer required. All manufacturers use the same couple of camera modules which output standard composite video, which is why even nice cars have obvious analogue artifacts and distortions. Even OEM headunits usually just consume a standard composite video input and switch to it when it has a signal. This information is valid up until at least 2020, but it might be changing as cars get more advanced cameras and stupid-er head units. I bet Tesla just uses their existing cameras. >not beeping if seatbelt not fastened Also trivial to do with analogue electronics, which we have done for decades. speed limit warnings are a dead end though. Impossible to do without some sort of technology to know what the "current" speed limit is.

webnrrd2k 2y ago

Don't they sell used cars in Europe?