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> We can see his actions and who he funds. I’m out of the loop here. Has Musk done anything related to nazi symbols (besides that weird gesture that some peopl

by Diti 2y ago

> We can see his actions and who he funds. I’m out of the loop here. Has Musk done anything related to nazi symbols (besides that weird gesture that some people say is a nazi salute), or funded Nazi organizations? EDIT: Why the downvotes?

walkingthisquai 2y ago
He's supporting the AFD in Germany among others. For a 5 min overview see here: https://youtu.be/NjWl_RNDMSA https://youtu.be/NjWl_RNDMSA
- decimalenough 2y ago
  AFD is indeed a far-right party and the optics of Musk supporting it are to put it mildly bizarre, but it is also one of the largest political parties in Germany, not a "Nazi organization". They advocate halting immigration, not genocide.
  - walkingthisquai 2y ago
    Sure, I just wanted to share some info on far-right/neo-nazi related people and orgs that Musk is linked to, as parent didn't seem to be aware.
    - Diti 2y ago
      Thank you for the links (you, and the person who replied to you)!
  - lostlogin 2y ago
    The AfD goes beyond just opposing immigration and they struggle to shake their Nazi links. Talks of deporting immigrants, getting into minimising SS culpability for Nazi crimes, use of Nazi slogans, links to convicted Nazis and banned Nazi parties. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx88nwy934go https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx88nwy934go https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/dangerous-liaisons-the-true-proximity-of-germany-s-afd-to-neo-nazis-a-e69c51d3-4b3c-49d2-8d54-d7b0a19c3f9a https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/dangerous-liais... https://www.politico.eu/article/hidden-nazi-heritage-germany-far-right-leader-afd-alice-weidel-hans-weidel-warsaw/ https://www.politico.eu/article/hidden-nazi-heritage-germany...
    - dzhiurgis 2y ago
      So they are not really nazi and calling musk one is like 6 degrees of separation..?
      - zarzavat 2y ago
        As a Jew there’s no difference to me between those who knowingly repeat Nazi slogans (i.e AfD) and “real” Nazis. It’s very easy to not be a Nazi, it’s unnecessary to make excuses for those who know what they are doing. Germans (i.e. ethnic German citizens), should be held to a higher standard, because they are educated on this, there’s no excuse.
        dzhiurgis 2y ago
        IDK, but hating on certain group (i.e. AfD) sounds you are somewhat of a nazi yourself then. AfD are huge Israel supporters (they anti-muslim tho) - https://www.timesofisrael.com/loathed-by-jews-germanys-far-right-afd-loves-the-jewish-state/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/loathed-by-jews-germanys-far-r...
        zarzavat 2y ago
        Israel supporter and antisemite aren't mutually exclusive[0]. In the past it was to get the Jews out of Europe (be it to Madagascar or Palestine), now it's because they hate Muslims more than Jews and see Israeli society as a template for a similar far-right Christian society. Obviously most AfD supporters are not everyday antisemites, but they are casting their votes for antisemites. I don't care to split hairs. Germans know better and do not get to plead ignorance. Musk could perhaps have been given the benefit of the doubt, he doesn't seem to understand European politics so it's possible he could have confused AfD as being the German equivalent of Reform UK or RN (neither of which want to be associated with AfD) ...that is until he made that salute. [0] nor are anti-Zionist and Jew mutually exclusive for that matter. Before WWII the creation of Israel was the subject of debate within the Jewish community. The Holocaust and happenings in the Soviet Union obviously shifted that debate firmly in one direction. In some sense the Palestinians are victims of the European far-right and far-left by proxy, though I am not shifting blame.
voidUpdate 2y ago
After doing the "weird gesture", rather than apologising for doing something that many people interpreted as a nazi gesture, he made a load of crappy puns about it involving the names of various high-ranking nazi leaders
- dzhiurgis 2y ago
  Maybe he shouldn't be apologizing for every unhinged accusation he gets? Maybe the accusers should apologize? Maybe they will come crawling on their knees in few months time to do so? I don't know, but what I do like is that wokeism is slowly curing so he may have been onto something.
  - lostlogin 2y ago
    Do you attribute the curing of wokeism (whatever that is) to Musk making Nazi salute? I’m missing a key part of what is going on.
    - dzhiurgis 2y ago
      PG wrote a good article on wokeism recently https://paulgraham.com/woke.html https://paulgraham.com/woke.html Maybe I should call it neo-woke when left is turning to violence and being more fascist than actual nazis? https://www.timesofisrael.com/loathed-by-jews-germanys-far-right-afd-loves-the-jewish-state/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/loathed-by-jews-germanys-far-r...
  - voidUpdate 2y ago
    You don't need to apologise for every accusation you get. You should probably address a widespread belief that you are making very offensive gestures, clarify what you meant and apologise for the confusion. Also could you define "wokeism" for me? Everyone seems to be using a different definition so its hard to know what people actually mean when they say it
    - dzhiurgis 2y ago
ryandrake 2y ago
I think the downvotes might be from your repeating the "weird gesture" phrase that is currently being used to sane-wash what actually happened. Anyone who doesn't think what Musk did was a Nazi salute, I encourage you to go into work, do it in front of your manager, and see what happens.

by Diti 2y ago

walkingthisquai 2y ago

He's supporting the AFD in Germany among others. For a 5 min overview see here: https://youtu.be/NjWl_RNDMSA https://youtu.be/NjWl_RNDMSA

decimalenough 2y ago
AFD is indeed a far-right party and the optics of Musk supporting it are to put it mildly bizarre, but it is also one of the largest political parties in Germany, not a "Nazi organization". They advocate halting immigration, not genocide.
- walkingthisquai 2y ago
  Sure, I just wanted to share some info on far-right/neo-nazi related people and orgs that Musk is linked to, as parent didn't seem to be aware.
  - Diti 2y ago
    Thank you for the links (you, and the person who replied to you)!
- lostlogin 2y ago
  The AfD goes beyond just opposing immigration and they struggle to shake their Nazi links. Talks of deporting immigrants, getting into minimising SS culpability for Nazi crimes, use of Nazi slogans, links to convicted Nazis and banned Nazi parties. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx88nwy934go https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx88nwy934go https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/dangerous-liaisons-the-true-proximity-of-germany-s-afd-to-neo-nazis-a-e69c51d3-4b3c-49d2-8d54-d7b0a19c3f9a https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/dangerous-liais... https://www.politico.eu/article/hidden-nazi-heritage-germany-far-right-leader-afd-alice-weidel-hans-weidel-warsaw/ https://www.politico.eu/article/hidden-nazi-heritage-germany...
  - dzhiurgis 2y ago
    So they are not really nazi and calling musk one is like 6 degrees of separation..?
    - zarzavat 2y ago
      As a Jew there’s no difference to me between those who knowingly repeat Nazi slogans (i.e AfD) and “real” Nazis. It’s very easy to not be a Nazi, it’s unnecessary to make excuses for those who know what they are doing. Germans (i.e. ethnic German citizens), should be held to a higher standard, because they are educated on this, there’s no excuse.
      - dzhiurgis 2y ago
        IDK, but hating on certain group (i.e. AfD) sounds you are somewhat of a nazi yourself then. AfD are huge Israel supporters (they anti-muslim tho) - https://www.timesofisrael.com/loathed-by-jews-germanys-far-right-afd-loves-the-jewish-state/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/loathed-by-jews-germanys-far-r...
        zarzavat 2y ago
        Israel supporter and antisemite aren't mutually exclusive[0]. In the past it was to get the Jews out of Europe (be it to Madagascar or Palestine), now it's because they hate Muslims more than Jews and see Israeli society as a template for a similar far-right Christian society. Obviously most AfD supporters are not everyday antisemites, but they are casting their votes for antisemites. I don't care to split hairs. Germans know better and do not get to plead ignorance. Musk could perhaps have been given the benefit of the doubt, he doesn't seem to understand European politics so it's possible he could have confused AfD as being the German equivalent of Reform UK or RN (neither of which want to be associated with AfD) ...that is until he made that salute. [0] nor are anti-Zionist and Jew mutually exclusive for that matter. Before WWII the creation of Israel was the subject of debate within the Jewish community. The Holocaust and happenings in the Soviet Union obviously shifted that debate firmly in one direction. In some sense the Palestinians are victims of the European far-right and far-left by proxy, though I am not shifting blame.

voidUpdate 2y ago

After doing the "weird gesture", rather than apologising for doing something that many people interpreted as a nazi gesture, he made a load of crappy puns about it involving the names of various high-ranking nazi leaders

dzhiurgis 2y ago
Maybe he shouldn't be apologizing for every unhinged accusation he gets? Maybe the accusers should apologize? Maybe they will come crawling on their knees in few months time to do so? I don't know, but what I do like is that wokeism is slowly curing so he may have been onto something.
- lostlogin 2y ago
  Do you attribute the curing of wokeism (whatever that is) to Musk making Nazi salute? I’m missing a key part of what is going on.
  - dzhiurgis 2y ago
    PG wrote a good article on wokeism recently https://paulgraham.com/woke.html https://paulgraham.com/woke.html Maybe I should call it neo-woke when left is turning to violence and being more fascist than actual nazis? https://www.timesofisrael.com/loathed-by-jews-germanys-far-right-afd-loves-the-jewish-state/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/loathed-by-jews-germanys-far-r...
- voidUpdate 2y ago
  You don't need to apologise for every accusation you get. You should probably address a widespread belief that you are making very offensive gestures, clarify what you meant and apologise for the confusion. Also could you define "wokeism" for me? Everyone seems to be using a different definition so its hard to know what people actually mean when they say it
  - dzhiurgis 2y ago

ryandrake 2y ago

I think the downvotes might be from your repeating the "weird gesture" phrase that is currently being used to sane-wash what actually happened. Anyone who doesn't think what Musk did was a Nazi salute, I encourage you to go into work, do it in front of your manager, and see what happens.