6 ms·

If I was to buy a car these days (which I'm not, I don't have nearly enough money for that), I'd want something with as little "computer" in it as possible. Jus

If I was to buy a car these days (which I'm not, I don't have nearly enough money for that), I'd want something with as little "computer" in it as possible. Just a box with 4 wheels and an engine, or maybe a battery and a motor, maybe a heater for when it gets a bit cold, and I'll throw a bluetooth speaker in the back seat if I need something to listen to

rightbyte 2y ago
It feels a bit counterintuitive to go for a Bluetooth speaker over 3.5mm? Your low tech car will feel like a emotional prison. Of all the annoying modernities you want the worst one? If you want to make a deal with the devil I would choose rear camera. Think about it. All the headache and time to pair Bluetooth devices over a dead simple connector. I would aim for a pre 2016 car. I think that has some margin to the Internet of Shit product lines?
- viceroyalbean 2y ago
  I would prefer 3.5mm over Bluetooth, but keep in mind most people get their music off their phones and (almost?) no modern phones have headphone jacks. Dongles are a thing, but meh. Additionally, modern Bluetooth devices have very little friction in my experience.
  - masklinn 2y ago
    > Dongles are a thing, but meh. A USB to jack left fixed in the car is not much of an imposition. Even less so if it can be combined with a 12V adapter for charging.
  - rightbyte 2y ago
    Ye. Many modern phones are *@*$ too. My wife is still bitter about not having a 3.5mm jack on hers she unknowingly bought 5 years ago. So much trouble ... However if more than one person will use the car (incl. as passanger) the annoyance of Bluetooth is even worse. We have a dongle in the car that is protected by a sworn oath to never be removed from the cabinet along with some charger cables.
    - fouc 2y ago
      It's my understanding that Bluetooth 5.1 fixes the multiple users in car issue, and it only got properly rolled out in the last couple years.
      - rightbyte 2y ago
        I believe it when I see it.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - pohuing 2y ago
    Even our Renault scenic from a decade ago seamlessly connects to my phone when I enter it.
    - rightbyte 2y ago
      Multi user seem to be the major pain point. I think linked and active headphones blocks the car too. There is just so much stuff that can make the abstraction of automation leak and you have to spend more time fixing it this one time than saved in the total lifetime of the car with a simple cable.
- vel0city 2y ago
  > All the headache and time to pair Bluetooth devices over a dead simple connector. Conversely, I pair my phone once when I get the car and I never need to worry about messing with it again; it's just connected when the car starts. I don't even need to take my device out of my pocket or bag. On top of that I get hands-free calling if someone calls while I'm driving, I get steering wheel media controls, I get voice controlled media selection (play playlist foo, play artist bar, etc.)
  - rightbyte 2y ago
    Ye that is my experience too. Aslong as noone touches the setup it works.
user3939382 2y ago
1945 Willys MB
dan-robertson 2y ago
Just to note the trade-off here: modern cars are much safer in crashes than even cars from ~20 years ago, and the less computer you want, the further back in time you need to go to find suitable cars. There are nuances to the safety thing: some brands were/are safer, more popular car designs today tend to have some features that may worsen safety (taller cars are less stable, heavier cars handle worse, big heavy cars are worse for pedestrians).
- fouc 2y ago
  [citation required] I wonder if there's even any citations that can directly show that a 2024 car is "much" safer than a 2004 car. Without relying on NHTSA's safety rating system, which is an indirect proxy at most (and probably has changed multiple times for "reasons"). And without being confounded by changes in regulatory measures.
  - plasticchris 2y ago
    Look at the statistics over time? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_...
    - cjrp 2y ago
      Could that be from other things though? Better tyres, improved safety-barrier technology, etc.?
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - Reubachi 2y ago
        I'm struggling to find the original document/page I read on this, but largely, "a car having better parts is due to the road having features that benefit these parts due to generations of studying the way cars behave in that set of circumstances. Autos are designed around and for the roads they will serve, not vice versa. This is the bane of auto manufacturers who want to make one tail light housing for all their cars in all their markets. it's a bit more easy to read data comparing for example safety in Euro market vs American market (there are fundamental differences in safety thoery; lighting, ride heighgt, weight, engine size etc. As opposed to looking at changing trends in one market over 20 years, which are largely stylistic.)
0x_rs 2y ago
This is going to become nearly impossible in Europe, it may already be in some places due to regulations restricting old vehicles due to emissions. ADAS requirements and other laws forcing manufacturers to implement all sorts of restrictions: just as an example, from 2024 on all new vehicles must implement ISA (Intelligent Speed Assist) that limits speed based on GPS and signs recognition. Anecdotal, but many cars built since mid 00s are ticking timebombs due to their endless electronics faults that will cost drivers a massive bill at some point if not multiple times over their lifespan, good luck finding those proprietary boards that have dozens different variants incompatible with each other for one single car model and have not been produced for years or decades. And if most car manufacturers are utterly incompetent at engineering lasting electronics, let's not get into software that they dedicate the least paid and most desperate SwEngs to work on. Coming to an abrupt halt from cruising speed on an highway is a common failure mode I've seen more than once dictated by insane ECUs programming, for example. I'd like to believe miniaturization and just maturity in the industry will make those sort of issues less prevalent for newer cars, but I'm not hopeful about it.
tomp 2y ago
It's literally illegal. In the EU, it's illegal to sell cars that don't have back camera, not beeping if seatbelt not fastened, and not beeping if speed limit is exceeded.
- plasticchris 2y ago
  Backup camera is also required in the USA, along with the seatbelt chimes.
- mcv 2y ago
  Our new car beeps constantly for unclear reasons and doesn't explain why. It's not helpful and I'd like it to stop.
  - efitz 2y ago
    Try buckling all your back seat belts. Recently US cars are required to annoy you if back seat passengers are not buckled in; many (most?) manufacturers are not putting in weight sensors to see if there are rear seat passengers present; they’re just putting in seat belt buckled sensors.
    - mcv 2y ago
      Our previous car did beep when there was any weight on the passenger seat while the seat belt was unbuckled, which is extremely annoying when you just put a bag there. Another annoying thing was that in order to use the navigation from the car, you first had to agree to obey the traffic rules or something. I already do that by participating in traffic. I don't think this incessant beeping for every little thing, nor requiring clicking though extra screens, is useful and I doubt it adds anything to safety. It's distracting and annoying and I start thinking about why the car is beeping this time, instead of focusing on the traffic. That's the really big problem with this design: the car should not draw attention to itself; my attention should be on the road. Also, when it does beep, it should at the very least make clear why, and you should be able to turn it off.
      - 2y ago
MontgomeryPy 2y ago
Hello to my fellow Saab daily drivers silently nodding their heads ;)
- voidUpdate 2y ago
  From what I remember of Saab, they sound perfect. Just some car that drives well and doesnt need a firmware update

rightbyte 2y ago

It feels a bit counterintuitive to go for a Bluetooth speaker over 3.5mm? Your low tech car will feel like a emotional prison. Of all the annoying modernities you want the worst one? If you want to make a deal with the devil I would choose rear camera. Think about it. All the headache and time to pair Bluetooth devices over a dead simple connector. I would aim for a pre 2016 car. I think that has some margin to the Internet of Shit product lines?

viceroyalbean 2y ago
I would prefer 3.5mm over Bluetooth, but keep in mind most people get their music off their phones and (almost?) no modern phones have headphone jacks. Dongles are a thing, but meh. Additionally, modern Bluetooth devices have very little friction in my experience.
- masklinn 2y ago
  > Dongles are a thing, but meh. A USB to jack left fixed in the car is not much of an imposition. Even less so if it can be combined with a 12V adapter for charging.
- rightbyte 2y ago
  Ye. Many modern phones are *@*$ too. My wife is still bitter about not having a 3.5mm jack on hers she unknowingly bought 5 years ago. So much trouble ... However if more than one person will use the car (incl. as passanger) the annoyance of Bluetooth is even worse. We have a dongle in the car that is protected by a sworn oath to never be removed from the cabinet along with some charger cables.
  - fouc 2y ago
    It's my understanding that Bluetooth 5.1 fixes the multiple users in car issue, and it only got properly rolled out in the last couple years.
    - rightbyte 2y ago
      I believe it when I see it.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- pohuing 2y ago
  Even our Renault scenic from a decade ago seamlessly connects to my phone when I enter it.
  - rightbyte 2y ago
    Multi user seem to be the major pain point. I think linked and active headphones blocks the car too. There is just so much stuff that can make the abstraction of automation leak and you have to spend more time fixing it this one time than saved in the total lifetime of the car with a simple cable.
vel0city 2y ago
> All the headache and time to pair Bluetooth devices over a dead simple connector. Conversely, I pair my phone once when I get the car and I never need to worry about messing with it again; it's just connected when the car starts. I don't even need to take my device out of my pocket or bag. On top of that I get hands-free calling if someone calls while I'm driving, I get steering wheel media controls, I get voice controlled media selection (play playlist foo, play artist bar, etc.)
- rightbyte 2y ago
  Ye that is my experience too. Aslong as noone touches the setup it works.

user3939382 2y ago

1945 Willys MB

dan-robertson 2y ago

Just to note the trade-off here: modern cars are much safer in crashes than even cars from ~20 years ago, and the less computer you want, the further back in time you need to go to find suitable cars. There are nuances to the safety thing: some brands were/are safer, more popular car designs today tend to have some features that may worsen safety (taller cars are less stable, heavier cars handle worse, big heavy cars are worse for pedestrians).

fouc 2y ago
[citation required] I wonder if there's even any citations that can directly show that a 2024 car is "much" safer than a 2004 car. Without relying on NHTSA's safety rating system, which is an indirect proxy at most (and probably has changed multiple times for "reasons"). And without being confounded by changes in regulatory measures.
- plasticchris 2y ago
  Look at the statistics over time? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_...
  - cjrp 2y ago
    Could that be from other things though? Better tyres, improved safety-barrier technology, etc.?
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - Reubachi 2y ago
      I'm struggling to find the original document/page I read on this, but largely, "a car having better parts is due to the road having features that benefit these parts due to generations of studying the way cars behave in that set of circumstances. Autos are designed around and for the roads they will serve, not vice versa. This is the bane of auto manufacturers who want to make one tail light housing for all their cars in all their markets. it's a bit more easy to read data comparing for example safety in Euro market vs American market (there are fundamental differences in safety thoery; lighting, ride heighgt, weight, engine size etc. As opposed to looking at changing trends in one market over 20 years, which are largely stylistic.)

0x_rs 2y ago

This is going to become nearly impossible in Europe, it may already be in some places due to regulations restricting old vehicles due to emissions. ADAS requirements and other laws forcing manufacturers to implement all sorts of restrictions: just as an example, from 2024 on all new vehicles must implement ISA (Intelligent Speed Assist) that limits speed based on GPS and signs recognition. Anecdotal, but many cars built since mid 00s are ticking timebombs due to their endless electronics faults that will cost drivers a massive bill at some point if not multiple times over their lifespan, good luck finding those proprietary boards that have dozens different variants incompatible with each other for one single car model and have not been produced for years or decades. And if most car manufacturers are utterly incompetent at engineering lasting electronics, let's not get into software that they dedicate the least paid and most desperate SwEngs to work on. Coming to an abrupt halt from cruising speed on an highway is a common failure mode I've seen more than once dictated by insane ECUs programming, for example. I'd like to believe miniaturization and just maturity in the industry will make those sort of issues less prevalent for newer cars, but I'm not hopeful about it.

tomp 2y ago

It's literally illegal. In the EU, it's illegal to sell cars that don't have back camera, not beeping if seatbelt not fastened, and not beeping if speed limit is exceeded.

plasticchris 2y ago
Backup camera is also required in the USA, along with the seatbelt chimes.
mcv 2y ago
Our new car beeps constantly for unclear reasons and doesn't explain why. It's not helpful and I'd like it to stop.
- efitz 2y ago
  Try buckling all your back seat belts. Recently US cars are required to annoy you if back seat passengers are not buckled in; many (most?) manufacturers are not putting in weight sensors to see if there are rear seat passengers present; they’re just putting in seat belt buckled sensors.
  - mcv 2y ago
    Our previous car did beep when there was any weight on the passenger seat while the seat belt was unbuckled, which is extremely annoying when you just put a bag there. Another annoying thing was that in order to use the navigation from the car, you first had to agree to obey the traffic rules or something. I already do that by participating in traffic. I don't think this incessant beeping for every little thing, nor requiring clicking though extra screens, is useful and I doubt it adds anything to safety. It's distracting and annoying and I start thinking about why the car is beeping this time, instead of focusing on the traffic. That's the really big problem with this design: the car should not draw attention to itself; my attention should be on the road. Also, when it does beep, it should at the very least make clear why, and you should be able to turn it off.
    - 2y ago

MontgomeryPy 2y ago

Hello to my fellow Saab daily drivers silently nodding their heads ;)

voidUpdate 2y ago
From what I remember of Saab, they sound perfect. Just some car that drives well and doesnt need a firmware update