5 ms·

Again an opinion, Musk said it was not a Nazi salute, he didn't repeat it, he has many Jewish supporters also saying it wasn't. Just stop, please, I'm really ab

Again an opinion, Musk said it was not a Nazi salute, he didn't repeat it, he has many Jewish supporters also saying it wasn't. Just stop, please, I'm really about to give up on the comment sections here.

NilMostChill 2y ago
This seems like you're trying to say that you'll leave if you continue seeing things you don't agree with. That's 100% allowed, i'd personally encourage it, if you find yourself in a place you don't enjoy, stop going to that place. That's a mature response to a self-imposed stressful environment.
- teekert 2y ago
  Sure, I agree with you, it just depends on what you want HN to be. I am an outsider to the US, I see your country as deeply divided. Families torn apart because of how they vote. Unthinkable here, probably unthinkable over there up until 10 years ago. In fact it seems more and more likely the US will erupt in a civil war, and split in 2. It just such a shame that HN, what I see as a gathering ground of intelligent people, is so much contributing to the divide by labeling people with other opinions as sub-humans almost. Belligerent, closed, judging. I don't like it. It's frightening.
  - hypothesis 2y ago
    Is it more frightening or less than being legally banned from existence? You don’t have to know much about history to see why people start cutting abusive relationships.
  - senordevnyc 2y ago
    Welcome to the downfall of civilization. It happens precisely because one side (or one player on one side) decides to stop playing infinite games, and start playing finite games instead. They weaponize your civility against you. The incentives for both sides shift, and we enter a downward spiral.
  - NilMostChill 2y ago
    I disagree with almost all of that. I'm not sure I've said anything that would indicate that i am , but I'm not from the US. > Families torn apart because of how they vote That's reductive in my opinion, I'd consider it a misrepresentation of the situation, at best. Given your other comments i'd lean towards it being intentional misrepresentation, but i could be wrong, either way i doubt we'll come to an understanding on this point so i'll just leave it there. > Unthinkable here, probably unthinkable over their up until 10 years ago. I doubt this is true, but if you genuinely think it's just a box ticking exercise and not a representation of ideology and perspective then it's possible we just have a fundamental disagreement of what's actually happening, so of course we'd disagree on interpretations. > In fact it seems more and more likely the US will erupt in a civil war, and split in 2. This i can see though. > It just such a shame that HN, what I see as a gathering ground of intelligent people, "Intelligent" people aren't inherently apolitical in my experience, they are also significantly less likely to not call you on something they see as bullshit. If you are looking for a place where you can define a perspective or opinion and not be challenged on it, this is absolutely not the place for you. > is so much contributing to the divide by labeling people with other opinions as sub-humans almost. I'm genuinely not sure how to address this level of cognitive dissonance. Either it's intentional, in which case no amount of discussion will be productive or it's unintentional and i don't know how to begin to address it. > Belligerent, closed, judging. I don't like it. You literally rocked up and replied to a thread with judgement based on a non-standard interpretation of a statement and then proceeded to say, multiple times, how disappointed you were that people expressed opinions different to your own, so much so that you expressed that you might leave if they didn't stop. As i said elsewhere, you don't have to (and IMO shouldn't) stay in a place you don't like, but if you're going to be upset by responses with differing opinions to your own i doubt this is a place you are going to enjoy.
    - teekert 2y ago
      Thank you for your thoughtful reply, I enjoyed reading it and I see your points. I’ll try to incorporate them into my thinking.
  - buzzardbait 2y ago
    Remember that the division you see is amplified by polarizing voices that are naturally amplified by the medium that is the Internet. If you actually traveled to the US, did a long road trip across the country and sat down and talked to actual Americans, I expect you will find that the vast majority don't have strong opinions about who runs the country. They just want to afford rent and groceries. Also if you think nerdy people who hang out on HN are immune to being "belligerent, closed-minded and judgy", you haven't worked with many nerdy people. We technical/intellectual types tend to be very logical and rational, until we're not.
lostlogin 2y ago
Weird take. He repeated his salute immediately. ‘I can’t be <x>ist because I know an <x>’ is hardly a new position. Defend him all you want, he speaks for himself. We can see his actions and who he funds.
- Diti 2y ago
  > We can see his actions and who he funds. I’m out of the loop here. Has Musk done anything related to nazi symbols (besides that weird gesture that some people say is a nazi salute), or funded Nazi organizations? EDIT: Why the downvotes?
  - walkingthisquai 2y ago
    He's supporting the AFD in Germany among others. For a 5 min overview see here: https://youtu.be/NjWl_RNDMSA https://youtu.be/NjWl_RNDMSA
    - decimalenough 2y ago
      AFD is indeed a far-right party and the optics of Musk supporting it are to put it mildly bizarre, but it is also one of the largest political parties in Germany, not a "Nazi organization". They advocate halting immigration, not genocide.
      - walkingthisquai 2y ago
        Sure, I just wanted to share some info on far-right/neo-nazi related people and orgs that Musk is linked to, as parent didn't seem to be aware.
        Diti 2y ago
        Thank you for the links (you, and the person who replied to you)!
      - lostlogin 2y ago
rsynnott 2y ago
I’m not sure that you can reasonably expect people to ignore this particular elephant in the room just for the sake of your psychological comfort, honestly.
refurb 2y ago
I don’t think people who rabidly hate Elon realize not how much it says about Elon, but how much it says about them. Don't like Elon’s politics? Thats reasonable. Don’t like his approach to business? That’s reasonable. Oddly twist everything to paint an evil supervillain? Oddly extend that “evil” to others who fail to condemn him the same way? Oddly spend hours and hours online arguing with people about Elon with others? That’s not normal nor indicative of a healthy psychology.
- NilMostChill 2y ago
  Same for rabidly supporting him.
- namaria 2y ago
  Why do you care if people hate some weird rich dude?
  - refurb 2y ago
    I don't really care that much. Only enough to comment on HN which is a very low bar in terms of caring. Same level of caring as highlighting an interesting source of data, or commenting on some current news.
Timon3 2y ago
> Again an opinion, Musk said it was not a Nazi salute [...] Has he actually said it wasn't a Nazi salute? My last update was that he responded to questions about this by making Nazi jokes, I haven't seen any actual denial. Could you share when he did so, so I don't spread inaccurate information? Thank you.
CyberDildonics 2y ago
What he did was identical to a classic nazi sieg heil, right down the forcefulness. https://imgur.com/UFrmbJs https://imgur.com/UFrmbJs “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.” ― George Orwell, 1984 The entire world knows it is a nazi salute, and people defending it do too. They would never put themselves on camera doing this because they know it is indefensible.

NilMostChill 2y ago

This seems like you're trying to say that you'll leave if you continue seeing things you don't agree with. That's 100% allowed, i'd personally encourage it, if you find yourself in a place you don't enjoy, stop going to that place. That's a mature response to a self-imposed stressful environment.

teekert 2y ago
Sure, I agree with you, it just depends on what you want HN to be. I am an outsider to the US, I see your country as deeply divided. Families torn apart because of how they vote. Unthinkable here, probably unthinkable over there up until 10 years ago. In fact it seems more and more likely the US will erupt in a civil war, and split in 2. It just such a shame that HN, what I see as a gathering ground of intelligent people, is so much contributing to the divide by labeling people with other opinions as sub-humans almost. Belligerent, closed, judging. I don't like it. It's frightening.
- hypothesis 2y ago
  Is it more frightening or less than being legally banned from existence? You don’t have to know much about history to see why people start cutting abusive relationships.
- senordevnyc 2y ago
  Welcome to the downfall of civilization. It happens precisely because one side (or one player on one side) decides to stop playing infinite games, and start playing finite games instead. They weaponize your civility against you. The incentives for both sides shift, and we enter a downward spiral.
- NilMostChill 2y ago
  I disagree with almost all of that. I'm not sure I've said anything that would indicate that i am , but I'm not from the US. > Families torn apart because of how they vote That's reductive in my opinion, I'd consider it a misrepresentation of the situation, at best. Given your other comments i'd lean towards it being intentional misrepresentation, but i could be wrong, either way i doubt we'll come to an understanding on this point so i'll just leave it there. > Unthinkable here, probably unthinkable over their up until 10 years ago. I doubt this is true, but if you genuinely think it's just a box ticking exercise and not a representation of ideology and perspective then it's possible we just have a fundamental disagreement of what's actually happening, so of course we'd disagree on interpretations. > In fact it seems more and more likely the US will erupt in a civil war, and split in 2. This i can see though. > It just such a shame that HN, what I see as a gathering ground of intelligent people, "Intelligent" people aren't inherently apolitical in my experience, they are also significantly less likely to not call you on something they see as bullshit. If you are looking for a place where you can define a perspective or opinion and not be challenged on it, this is absolutely not the place for you. > is so much contributing to the divide by labeling people with other opinions as sub-humans almost. I'm genuinely not sure how to address this level of cognitive dissonance. Either it's intentional, in which case no amount of discussion will be productive or it's unintentional and i don't know how to begin to address it. > Belligerent, closed, judging. I don't like it. You literally rocked up and replied to a thread with judgement based on a non-standard interpretation of a statement and then proceeded to say, multiple times, how disappointed you were that people expressed opinions different to your own, so much so that you expressed that you might leave if they didn't stop. As i said elsewhere, you don't have to (and IMO shouldn't) stay in a place you don't like, but if you're going to be upset by responses with differing opinions to your own i doubt this is a place you are going to enjoy.
  - teekert 2y ago
    Thank you for your thoughtful reply, I enjoyed reading it and I see your points. I’ll try to incorporate them into my thinking.
- buzzardbait 2y ago
  Remember that the division you see is amplified by polarizing voices that are naturally amplified by the medium that is the Internet. If you actually traveled to the US, did a long road trip across the country and sat down and talked to actual Americans, I expect you will find that the vast majority don't have strong opinions about who runs the country. They just want to afford rent and groceries. Also if you think nerdy people who hang out on HN are immune to being "belligerent, closed-minded and judgy", you haven't worked with many nerdy people. We technical/intellectual types tend to be very logical and rational, until we're not.

lostlogin 2y ago

Weird take. He repeated his salute immediately. ‘I can’t be <x>ist because I know an <x>’ is hardly a new position. Defend him all you want, he speaks for himself. We can see his actions and who he funds.

Diti 2y ago
> We can see his actions and who he funds. I’m out of the loop here. Has Musk done anything related to nazi symbols (besides that weird gesture that some people say is a nazi salute), or funded Nazi organizations? EDIT: Why the downvotes?
- walkingthisquai 2y ago
  He's supporting the AFD in Germany among others. For a 5 min overview see here: https://youtu.be/NjWl_RNDMSA https://youtu.be/NjWl_RNDMSA
  - decimalenough 2y ago
    AFD is indeed a far-right party and the optics of Musk supporting it are to put it mildly bizarre, but it is also one of the largest political parties in Germany, not a "Nazi organization". They advocate halting immigration, not genocide.
    - walkingthisquai 2y ago
      Sure, I just wanted to share some info on far-right/neo-nazi related people and orgs that Musk is linked to, as parent didn't seem to be aware.
      - Diti 2y ago
        Thank you for the links (you, and the person who replied to you)!
    - lostlogin 2y ago

rsynnott 2y ago

I’m not sure that you can reasonably expect people to ignore this particular elephant in the room just for the sake of your psychological comfort, honestly.

refurb 2y ago

I don’t think people who rabidly hate Elon realize not how much it says about Elon, but how much it says about them. Don't like Elon’s politics? Thats reasonable. Don’t like his approach to business? That’s reasonable. Oddly twist everything to paint an evil supervillain? Oddly extend that “evil” to others who fail to condemn him the same way? Oddly spend hours and hours online arguing with people about Elon with others? That’s not normal nor indicative of a healthy psychology.

NilMostChill 2y ago
Same for rabidly supporting him.
namaria 2y ago
Why do you care if people hate some weird rich dude?
- refurb 2y ago
  I don't really care that much. Only enough to comment on HN which is a very low bar in terms of caring. Same level of caring as highlighting an interesting source of data, or commenting on some current news.

Timon3 2y ago

> Again an opinion, Musk said it was not a Nazi salute [...] Has he actually said it wasn't a Nazi salute? My last update was that he responded to questions about this by making Nazi jokes, I haven't seen any actual denial. Could you share when he did so, so I don't spread inaccurate information? Thank you.

CyberDildonics 2y ago

What he did was identical to a classic nazi sieg heil, right down the forcefulness. https://imgur.com/UFrmbJs https://imgur.com/UFrmbJs “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.” ― George Orwell, 1984 The entire world knows it is a nazi salute, and people defending it do too. They would never put themselves on camera doing this because they know it is indefensible.