3 ms·

8% seems like a lot. Car usually stays plugged in at home so I haven't seen it drain. I wonder if it's having trouble since the cameras aren't working, and cons

8% seems like a lot. Car usually stays plugged in at home so I haven't seen it drain. I wonder if it's having trouble since the cameras aren't working, and constantly trying to detect objects or something?

bflesch 2y ago
I'm ready to provide witness statement in front of court about the 8% per day battery loss from sentry mode on a 2022 M3P. It's not even on a busy street, just a shitty software. Not sure why you want to argue about that. Edit: Sorry maybe this sounded a bit too rough, but unplug your car and check it yourself. It's like someone is siphoning gasoline from your vehicle every single day.
- mathieuh 2y ago
  I don't think they were doubting you, they were expressing surprise that it could lose that much charge so quickly
- numpad0 2y ago
  75kWh * 8% = 6kWh, 6kWh/24h = 250W. Maybe thermal management can't go low enough.
- therein 2y ago
  Pretty crazy that simple motion detection is taking that much power. It is absolutely shitty software. The battery capacity on that car is incredible, you could put a 4090 in there and run it and it would maybe drain 8% a day, right? So something extremely irresponsible is going on.
  - taneliv 2y ago
    A 4090 has TDP of 450W, at which it would drain over 14%.
marcyb5st 2y ago
Yeah, it is a lot, but it is the same in "fully working" cars. Additionally, once you to the math things look bad: 8% of a battery pack of 60kWh is around 5kWH. 5000 Wh / 24h = 208 W. 200W to keep few cameras on and a small CPU/GPU to run the logic seems a lot. Especially considering that you don't need to analyze every frame of every camera. In fact, you could easily run one frame every 5 seconds making it ~ 1FPS analyzed (6 cameras) since the car is parked. Additionally, you don't need to run heavy models on all the images. You can run some sort of diff to see if pixels changed within a tolerance threshold between the new and the old image and only if that's true then you run the ML models.
- AgentK20 2y ago
  From my understanding the problem is that the computer just....doesn't sleep if you have Sentry mode running. It's not that it's sleeping for a few seconds and then waking up, it's just fully awake drawing it's normal base load, which for HW4 [1] appears to be ~300W. A good way to verify this if you've got a Tesla is how long it takes for the car to acknowledge commands sent via the mobile app. If they're near-instant (ignoring TCP latency ofc), the car is "Awake" and drawing it's full load. If they take 5-15 seconds, the car is Asleep and only polling it's LTE antennas for push notifications every 10s or so. If they timeout entirely, the car is in Deep Sleep and drawing almost no wattage (at least based on my observations with my wife's M3). When in Sentry mode, responses are ALWAYS instant, so the car is fully Awake and drawing full wattage. [1] https://teslatap.com/articles/autopilot-processors-and-hardware-mcu-hw-demystified/ https://teslatap.com/articles/autopilot-processors-and-hardw...
  - marcyb5st 2y ago
    Thanks for point that out, but I then believe it's a combination of the two. I don't believe that an embedded PC that allegedly has the same power as a PS5 consumes 200/300W idling. Even if it doesn't sleep it should consume in the order of 10s of W, not 100s. For reference, my PC here has a 3070, a ryzen 7 7xxx (I don't remember the exact model) and consumes like 40W at the outlet when idling. So I am willing to assume that yes, the onboard PC doesn't idle when sentry mode is active, but the 200+ W draw is due to it running terrible software, and not just not entering CPU states that are energy efficient.
ta1243 2y ago
A model 3 battery is at least 57.5kWh. That's 4.6kWh a day when idle, or a constant draw of 200W. That's a lot of power, and a lot of money.

bflesch 2y ago

I'm ready to provide witness statement in front of court about the 8% per day battery loss from sentry mode on a 2022 M3P. It's not even on a busy street, just a shitty software. Not sure why you want to argue about that. Edit: Sorry maybe this sounded a bit too rough, but unplug your car and check it yourself. It's like someone is siphoning gasoline from your vehicle every single day.

mathieuh 2y ago
I don't think they were doubting you, they were expressing surprise that it could lose that much charge so quickly
numpad0 2y ago
75kWh * 8% = 6kWh, 6kWh/24h = 250W. Maybe thermal management can't go low enough.
therein 2y ago
Pretty crazy that simple motion detection is taking that much power. It is absolutely shitty software. The battery capacity on that car is incredible, you could put a 4090 in there and run it and it would maybe drain 8% a day, right? So something extremely irresponsible is going on.
- taneliv 2y ago
  A 4090 has TDP of 450W, at which it would drain over 14%.

marcyb5st 2y ago

Yeah, it is a lot, but it is the same in "fully working" cars. Additionally, once you to the math things look bad: 8% of a battery pack of 60kWh is around 5kWH. 5000 Wh / 24h = 208 W. 200W to keep few cameras on and a small CPU/GPU to run the logic seems a lot. Especially considering that you don't need to analyze every frame of every camera. In fact, you could easily run one frame every 5 seconds making it ~ 1FPS analyzed (6 cameras) since the car is parked. Additionally, you don't need to run heavy models on all the images. You can run some sort of diff to see if pixels changed within a tolerance threshold between the new and the old image and only if that's true then you run the ML models.

AgentK20 2y ago
From my understanding the problem is that the computer just....doesn't sleep if you have Sentry mode running. It's not that it's sleeping for a few seconds and then waking up, it's just fully awake drawing it's normal base load, which for HW4 [1] appears to be ~300W. A good way to verify this if you've got a Tesla is how long it takes for the car to acknowledge commands sent via the mobile app. If they're near-instant (ignoring TCP latency ofc), the car is "Awake" and drawing it's full load. If they take 5-15 seconds, the car is Asleep and only polling it's LTE antennas for push notifications every 10s or so. If they timeout entirely, the car is in Deep Sleep and drawing almost no wattage (at least based on my observations with my wife's M3). When in Sentry mode, responses are ALWAYS instant, so the car is fully Awake and drawing full wattage. [1] https://teslatap.com/articles/autopilot-processors-and-hardware-mcu-hw-demystified/ https://teslatap.com/articles/autopilot-processors-and-hardw...
- marcyb5st 2y ago
  Thanks for point that out, but I then believe it's a combination of the two. I don't believe that an embedded PC that allegedly has the same power as a PS5 consumes 200/300W idling. Even if it doesn't sleep it should consume in the order of 10s of W, not 100s. For reference, my PC here has a 3070, a ryzen 7 7xxx (I don't remember the exact model) and consumes like 40W at the outlet when idling. So I am willing to assume that yes, the onboard PC doesn't idle when sentry mode is active, but the 200+ W draw is due to it running terrible software, and not just not entering CPU states that are energy efficient.

ta1243 2y ago

A model 3 battery is at least 57.5kWh. That's 4.6kWh a day when idle, or a constant draw of 200W. That's a lot of power, and a lot of money.