4 ms·

I think the counter-argument here would be that dynamically-typed languages let the person behind the keyboard run the show, as opposed to the IDE.

eru 14y ago
Alas, nobody has written a really good IDE for Haskell, yet. So we still have to run the show for that statically typed language manually.
- protomyth 14y ago
  If I ever develop a program language, the first action I will take is the clang approach and make it a library based architecture. That way, people can build tools for the language including IDE integration without having to reinvent the wheel.
  - pcwalton 14y ago
    Yes, this has been invaluable for us in Rust. One cool thing we've been able to do with this architecture is to write a fuzzer -- a tool that uses the Rust compiler itself to generate random Rust programs to test the compiler's correctness.
  - tikhonj 14y ago
    I think GHC does something like that. At the very least, it exposes an API that lets you do all sorts of fun things. There are projects like Scion[1] that let you integrate that into an editor. [1]: https://github.com/nominolo/scion/ https://github.com/nominolo/scion/ However, there is simply less drive to develop tooling like that for Haskell than there is for Java. Haskell is a much easier language to use given just a moderately intelligent text editor and a REPL than most others. Java, on the other hand, it verbose and annoying even with a very good IDE. So Haskell can have good support, but since it isn't terribly necessary it isn't anything like a top priority.
    - obtu 14y ago
      Indeed, “the architecture of GHC” mentions some uses of GHC as a library: http://www.aosabook.org/en/ghc.html http://www.aosabook.org/en/ghc.html
  - vdm 14y ago
    Compiler As A Service. Microsoft are pushing this with Roslyn. http://www.infoworld.com/d/application-development/microsofts-roslyn-reinventing-the-compiler-we-know-it-176671 http://www.infoworld.com/d/application-development/microsoft...
- Evbn 14y ago
  Try EclipseFP.
- obtu 14y ago
  What do you think of leksah?
  - eru 14y ago
    I know of it, but haven't used it, yet. That's why my comment was a bit more guarded than it would have otherwise been. (Though re-reading that line, it doesn't come across as such to me now.)
majormajor 14y ago
IDEs are just another potentially-useful (some of them are better done than others) form of abstraction to let you focus on the important parts.
trung_pham 14y ago
You run the show by architecting your software. Not by counting the number of key strokes you typed.

eru 14y ago

Alas, nobody has written a really good IDE for Haskell, yet. So we still have to run the show for that statically typed language manually.

protomyth 14y ago
If I ever develop a program language, the first action I will take is the clang approach and make it a library based architecture. That way, people can build tools for the language including IDE integration without having to reinvent the wheel.
- pcwalton 14y ago
  Yes, this has been invaluable for us in Rust. One cool thing we've been able to do with this architecture is to write a fuzzer -- a tool that uses the Rust compiler itself to generate random Rust programs to test the compiler's correctness.
- tikhonj 14y ago
  I think GHC does something like that. At the very least, it exposes an API that lets you do all sorts of fun things. There are projects like Scion[1] that let you integrate that into an editor. [1]: https://github.com/nominolo/scion/ https://github.com/nominolo/scion/ However, there is simply less drive to develop tooling like that for Haskell than there is for Java. Haskell is a much easier language to use given just a moderately intelligent text editor and a REPL than most others. Java, on the other hand, it verbose and annoying even with a very good IDE. So Haskell can have good support, but since it isn't terribly necessary it isn't anything like a top priority.
  - obtu 14y ago
    Indeed, “the architecture of GHC” mentions some uses of GHC as a library: http://www.aosabook.org/en/ghc.html http://www.aosabook.org/en/ghc.html
- vdm 14y ago
  Compiler As A Service. Microsoft are pushing this with Roslyn. http://www.infoworld.com/d/application-development/microsofts-roslyn-reinventing-the-compiler-we-know-it-176671 http://www.infoworld.com/d/application-development/microsoft...
Evbn 14y ago
Try EclipseFP.
obtu 14y ago
What do you think of leksah?
- eru 14y ago
  I know of it, but haven't used it, yet. That's why my comment was a bit more guarded than it would have otherwise been. (Though re-reading that line, it doesn't come across as such to me now.)

majormajor 14y ago

IDEs are just another potentially-useful (some of them are better done than others) form of abstraction to let you focus on the important parts.

trung_pham 14y ago

You run the show by architecting your software. Not by counting the number of key strokes you typed.