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A very important thing about this is going to be 911 (and other emergency number) calling. Since 911 calling bypasses network locks, we'll have a world where ev

A very important thing about this is going to be 911 (and other emergency number) calling. Since 911 calling bypasses network locks, we'll have a world where everyone outdoors can reach help.

teeray 2y ago
There’s a popular tendency to overvalue connectivity in the backcountry and undervalue the ability to avoid unnecessary risk and self-rescue. Connectivity can actually cause some people to take risks where they otherwise wouldn’t, thinking a helicopter will drop out of the sky 30 minutes after dialing 911. Many stories about rescues in the White Mountains of NH, for example, begin with a call for help with known coordinates (either by cell or PLB). The trouble comes in rallying resources from Fish & Game, State Police, volunteer groups, etc. then getting into the woods to carry out the rescue. We’re talking many hours for this. Then there’s the issue of actually reaching those coordinates and hoping they are accurate—there’s been teams bounced around multiple points through grueling terrain while they, themselves, are putting their lives at risk.
- trothamel 2y ago
  I'm more thinking of times when I've been driving through areas with spotty cell service, rather then the actual backcountry. The sort of thing where you could drive to it, but still haven no service.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- grapesodaaaaa 2y ago
  I used to be a volunteer SAR member in Colorado. You are correct that it takes many, many hours in a lot of cases. Helis were almost never used, and you’d get rolled down the mountain on a “big wheel” if you couldn’t walk. This was not fun for the subject or SAR members. Not only that, but guess who mostly has time to volunteer? Retirees. I wish SAR had better funding, but that’s not going to happen anytime soon. I would urge everyone in the backcountry to do their best to be self sufficient and make good choices.
  - freedomben 2y ago
    How does one go about volunteering to do SAR?
    - tuzakey 2y ago
      Find a SAR team in your area, they usually have a recruiting page. SAR is not a casual volunteer commitment they tend to train a lot. The process here (alameda county ~ bay area) is take orientation class, apply, pass fitness/skills test/oral interview/background check, attend meetings and basic training, then train more while waiting for a call out. They want 6+hrs/mo to stay active. This will be different for every jurisdiction so ymmv.
    - grogenaut 2y ago
      I don't personally do SAR, but am getting into some adjacent things like ski patrol that have many SAR members (SPART, Ski Patrol Rescue Team), and volunteer for large event medical along many SAR members. So don't take what I'm saying as gospel. Looks like you'd fill out https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LP6lFpUFgm5LwD48BmfEiXHqjgPCdwHC/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LP6lFpUFgm5LwD48BmfEiXHqjgP... or contact https://www.alaskasar.org/membership https://www.alaskasar.org/membership to find out more. Usually you do training to do one or more operational capabilities. There are many kinds of SAR, these are the capabilities. There's people who take 4x4s up fire roads, winter vehicle rescue, hiking, remains retrieval and search, drone people, alpine / ski rescue, avalanche, ropes, swift water, it goes on, think of ways people can get lost or stuck. I don't live in Alaska but in Seattle, for one of the SARs you'd mainly learn how to do search, navigation, and camping (backpacking). Once you train you basically get a text when someone's missing and you reply if you can help. You then drive to a staging area with your kit and help out. As the sister post said, there will be a re-occuring training and likely yearly BLS / CPR certification, and simulated missions. You need to practice this stuff, and practice being organized so you're ready to go and not just asking questions when someone is actually in danger. Ski Patrol was around 80 hours of just medical training, and another 40 hours of job training, and 50 hours of training to just use the toboggan to get someone off the hill. This training also serves to weed out the non-committed people. There's some good photos on https://www.facebook.com/KC.SPART/ https://www.facebook.com/KC.SPART/ of a rescue exercise, you can see the number of people involved (there are instructors) and know they're possibly several miles up from the freeway irl, sometimes doing overnight rescues. It's a lot of work to haul someone out.
- p3rls 2y ago
  Eh, their lives aren't at risk at the rates of actual blue collar professions like logging, roofing etc. and these jobs have lower prestige and benefits as well. A little tax-payer funded training in the form of practice runs doesn't sound like a bad thing either.
  - mint2 2y ago
    SAR groups are often unpaid volunteers and at a minimum will be eating some of their weekend off to respond… unless those loggers are unpaid prison labor what you say is false.
Projectiboga 2y ago
Will there be 911 calling? The announcement says texting only.
- trothamel 2y ago
  I believe I've heard they will have it when more services are available. But text-to-911 seems like it could be useful.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> a world where everyone outdoors can reach help Get a 406 MHz beacon [1]. They’re more effective in more conditions, unambiguous and easier to hone in on than phoned-in coördinates. [1] https://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emergency-406-beacons/ https://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emergency-406-beacons/
dlcarrier 2y ago
According to the sign-up page: Anyone on any carrier can sign up now to join the beta test and get satellite-powered messaging-at no extra cost until July. Secure your spot today. They are signing up test users from any network, not just T-Mobile.
HWR_14 2y ago
Which 911 center will the satellite relay calls to?
zelon88 2y ago
Provided, of course, that you have the special app which costs $5.99/month* and has full access to your phone storage, camera, microphone, GPS location, WiFi SSID, OAuth tokens, and copyright ownership of your childs baby pictures. Coming soon*
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

A very important thing about this is going to be 911 (and other emergency number) calling. Since 911 calling bypasses network locks, we'll have a world where everyone outdoors can reach help.

teeray 2y ago

There’s a popular tendency to overvalue connectivity in the backcountry and undervalue the ability to avoid unnecessary risk and self-rescue. Connectivity can actually cause some people to take risks where they otherwise wouldn’t, thinking a helicopter will drop out of the sky 30 minutes after dialing 911. Many stories about rescues in the White Mountains of NH, for example, begin with a call for help with known coordinates (either by cell or PLB). The trouble comes in rallying resources from Fish & Game, State Police, volunteer groups, etc. then getting into the woods to carry out the rescue. We’re talking many hours for this. Then there’s the issue of actually reaching those coordinates and hoping they are accurate—there’s been teams bounced around multiple points through grueling terrain while they, themselves, are putting their lives at risk.

trothamel 2y ago
I'm more thinking of times when I've been driving through areas with spotty cell service, rather then the actual backcountry. The sort of thing where you could drive to it, but still haven no service.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
grapesodaaaaa 2y ago
I used to be a volunteer SAR member in Colorado. You are correct that it takes many, many hours in a lot of cases. Helis were almost never used, and you’d get rolled down the mountain on a “big wheel” if you couldn’t walk. This was not fun for the subject or SAR members. Not only that, but guess who mostly has time to volunteer? Retirees. I wish SAR had better funding, but that’s not going to happen anytime soon. I would urge everyone in the backcountry to do their best to be self sufficient and make good choices.
- freedomben 2y ago
  How does one go about volunteering to do SAR?
  - tuzakey 2y ago
    Find a SAR team in your area, they usually have a recruiting page. SAR is not a casual volunteer commitment they tend to train a lot. The process here (alameda county ~ bay area) is take orientation class, apply, pass fitness/skills test/oral interview/background check, attend meetings and basic training, then train more while waiting for a call out. They want 6+hrs/mo to stay active. This will be different for every jurisdiction so ymmv.
  - grogenaut 2y ago
    I don't personally do SAR, but am getting into some adjacent things like ski patrol that have many SAR members (SPART, Ski Patrol Rescue Team), and volunteer for large event medical along many SAR members. So don't take what I'm saying as gospel. Looks like you'd fill out https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LP6lFpUFgm5LwD48BmfEiXHqjgPCdwHC/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LP6lFpUFgm5LwD48BmfEiXHqjgP... or contact https://www.alaskasar.org/membership https://www.alaskasar.org/membership to find out more. Usually you do training to do one or more operational capabilities. There are many kinds of SAR, these are the capabilities. There's people who take 4x4s up fire roads, winter vehicle rescue, hiking, remains retrieval and search, drone people, alpine / ski rescue, avalanche, ropes, swift water, it goes on, think of ways people can get lost or stuck. I don't live in Alaska but in Seattle, for one of the SARs you'd mainly learn how to do search, navigation, and camping (backpacking). Once you train you basically get a text when someone's missing and you reply if you can help. You then drive to a staging area with your kit and help out. As the sister post said, there will be a re-occuring training and likely yearly BLS / CPR certification, and simulated missions. You need to practice this stuff, and practice being organized so you're ready to go and not just asking questions when someone is actually in danger. Ski Patrol was around 80 hours of just medical training, and another 40 hours of job training, and 50 hours of training to just use the toboggan to get someone off the hill. This training also serves to weed out the non-committed people. There's some good photos on https://www.facebook.com/KC.SPART/ https://www.facebook.com/KC.SPART/ of a rescue exercise, you can see the number of people involved (there are instructors) and know they're possibly several miles up from the freeway irl, sometimes doing overnight rescues. It's a lot of work to haul someone out.
p3rls 2y ago
Eh, their lives aren't at risk at the rates of actual blue collar professions like logging, roofing etc. and these jobs have lower prestige and benefits as well. A little tax-payer funded training in the form of practice runs doesn't sound like a bad thing either.
- mint2 2y ago
  SAR groups are often unpaid volunteers and at a minimum will be eating some of their weekend off to respond… unless those loggers are unpaid prison labor what you say is false.

Projectiboga 2y ago

Will there be 911 calling? The announcement says texting only.

trothamel 2y ago
I believe I've heard they will have it when more services are available. But text-to-911 seems like it could be useful.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> a world where everyone outdoors can reach help Get a 406 MHz beacon [1]. They’re more effective in more conditions, unambiguous and easier to hone in on than phoned-in coördinates. [1] https://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emergency-406-beacons/ https://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emergency-406-beacons/

dlcarrier 2y ago

According to the sign-up page: Anyone on any carrier can sign up now to join the beta test and get satellite-powered messaging-at no extra cost until July. Secure your spot today. They are signing up test users from any network, not just T-Mobile.

HWR_14 2y ago

Which 911 center will the satellite relay calls to?

zelon88 2y ago

Provided, of course, that you have the special app which costs $5.99/month* and has full access to your phone storage, camera, microphone, GPS location, WiFi SSID, OAuth tokens, and copyright ownership of your childs baby pictures. Coming soon*

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]