5 ms·

The reason security clearances are so important, and why people are so upset about randos going through so much sensitive government information, is that things

The reason security clearances are so important, and why people are so upset about randos going through so much sensitive government information, is that things like this can be used by adversaries to lean on these employees in the future. One of these kids might have worse skeletons in their closet. Given how well-known their names are, adversaries of the USA are likely combing through their own intelligence archives, etc and might decide to extract their own pound of flesh from the government. Or, even more horrible, they might have family that adversaries can lean on. Subverting the process to meme faster and blitz the other side puts the entire American system in pretty serious danger. If it's more important to destroy the system than make serious change, I suppose that's how you'd do it.

stainablesteel 2y ago
[flagged]
- mmastrac 2y ago
  Is there a real source to this? I'll humour you and try to find one. The rabbit hole leads down sketchy sites to sketchy tweets, to someone who eventually sources it as "vBulletin, Biden basement" and links to a Musk tweet with no further info. [0] Smells a lot like "flooding the zone with shit", but I don't think anyone is pro-corruption. Assuming this is true, and it seems like misinfo, I hope that the right has a plan to remove all the corruption they are current in the process of installing -- obviously starting at the top with a leader that launched a memecoin to fleece true believers (also quoted as saying "I love the undereducated"). [0] https://x.com/MarioNawfal/status/1888581827285148067 https://x.com/MarioNawfal/status/1888581827285148067 EDIT: it's even sketchier. Following the source leads to this very likely biased [1] page that estimates her net worth as approx 10M-30M based on... what? It doesn't even match the sums of the document below. She clearly made 1M-5M as an advisor for Chamath's Social Capital, and has some decent savings before that (on the order of a few million) but this estimation of net worth and faux-outrage is laughably transparent. [1] https://www.insidebidensbasement.org/appointees/samantha-power https://www.insidebidensbasement.org/appointees/samantha-pow...
  - stainablesteel 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - mmastrac 2y ago
      You don't seem particularly interested in seeking the truth, so I wish you the best.
      - stainablesteel 2y ago
        [flagged]
watwut 2y ago
I am genuinely more concerned by Elon Musk himself having access then one of these with skeletons in the closet. USA adversaries are no more dangerous then USA is to itself.
- SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - bigfudge 2y ago
    Assuming this is true (and it's plausible), getting top secret clearance is _not_ going to be the same as getting unrestricted copies of every large government database. It presumably just means you have permission to read _some_ top secret documents, on a need to know basis?
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      Yes. There's still a process to access classified documents, and they will try to give you as little access as you need for your task when granted. You need to be very specific about what info you need (more broad access makes it easier to deny). I'm not even entirely certain the president can just walk in and grab treasury access that easily (but the president always played by different rules. He may indeed be fast tracked).
  - bagels 2y ago
    Do you know how clearance works? It doesn't mean that you suddenly have access to every secret in existence.
adolph 2y ago
> Or, even more horrible, they might have family that adversaries can lean on. Isn't that the case for any government employee?
- mmastrac 2y ago
  Security clearance will include family members, and it's entirely possible someone will be denied clearance because of something they've done that makes them susceptible to coercion. The candidate would need to disclose things like this. Reddit is full of examples where someone's family impacted their clearance (either denying it or requiring disclosure): https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEngineers/comments/4d4xd8/possibly_denied_security_clearance_because_of/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEngineers/comments/4d4xd8/possib... https://www.reddit.com/r/LawSchool/comments/11pkjew/will_a_family_members_criminal_history_sibling/ https://www.reddit.com/r/LawSchool/comments/11pkjew/will_a_f... etc
  - duskwuff 2y ago
    > It's entirely possible someone will be denied clearance because of something they've done that makes them susceptible to coercion. And that doesn't have to be something incriminating, either, just something that means they could be used as a lever against the individual seeking clearance. An example might be something like having a family member who lives in Russia - this would make the subject susceptible to coercion by the Russian government threatening to harm their family.
risyachka 2y ago
Also a lot of consequences of musks actions will appear only decades later and they will claim they have nothing to do with it.
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
To be clear, the security clearances you’re talking about, that look at “skeletons in their closet” or family members or whatever is not applied to MOST federal positions. This is only for a subset that are more sensitive. The type of activity people involved in DOGE are taking on does not require security clearances, just a background check. Also keep in mind, the people involved in DOGE are working alongside senior people, alongside people from agencies, and not just off on their own the way the media has been painting. Treasury secretary Bessent discussed this recently in public.
- acdha 2y ago
  Privileged IT access usually requires public trust, which will definitely include a PI talking to friends and former colleagues along with a variety of database analysis. It’s not just checking to see if you have DUIs or unpaid child support.
b8 2y ago
Well, I mean China already pwned opm.gov and got SF-86 on all fed employees a few years ago. The FBI gives people who have clearances on how adversaries will attempt to get information and what to do. Mainly it's just alerting the employers security office, and former feds get an email to reach out to for questions/concerns post employment. The security clearance process is broken and mostly BS. The head of DCSA and the FBI NYC office got caught doing illegal stuff which the process is suppose to detect. Also, it's better to go to jail or quit for blackmail then to comply with blackmail, because it caries worst sentences and doesn't have a statue of limitations. Many people with clearances have bad backgrounds and just being honest is all they're looking for in the process. My friend and I even admitted to a bunch of CFAA felonies and was never charged. My friend got a TS/SCI with hacking within the past year of his BI.
- Psillisp 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - b8 2y ago
    I mean OPs post is whataboutism. What if the kid has skeletons in his closet or calling the kids randomers etc. The security clearance process is long and is a joke imo. DCSA often gives interim clearances after running a credit and criminal check with no red flags (including TS/SCI). Then they interview coworkers, boses and family members. They ask basic questions such as does x associate with criminals or illegal stuff, drink or do drugs etc. A lot of bad apples pass. The blog post is FUD imo.
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      >What if the kid has skeletons in his closet I mean, we already found a few skeletons >The security clearance process is long and is a joke imo. Don't fully agree, but it is indeed overly long. But as is the theme of this Musk adminsitration; Just because you think something is bad or inefficient doesnt'r give you safeway to skip over it entirely. These last 2 weeks are proving the importannce of clearance more than anything else has over decades. >A lot of bad apples pass. This isn't even an apple at this point. You're letting a skunk rummage through the entire barrel unaccounted for.
ants_everywhere 2y ago
> The reason security clearances are so important...puts the entire American system in pretty serious danger. Remember when Michael Flynn was National Security Advisor? The guy had secret meetings with Russian spies and gave a talk at GRU headquarters. In the first administration there were obvious spies from our adversaries working in top government positions, and the same seems to be true of this administration. Also remember when Trump gave away nuclear secrets? Or when Russian sources "disappeared" after Trump outed them? Or when the CIA reported dozens of spies being killed, arrested, or compromised? These randos getting access to so much data aren't a separate threat. They're part of the same threat presented by the administration as a whole.
- jpadkins 2y ago
  wait, you actually believe all this dis-info? The CIA doesn't control Trump. They have been passively and actively subverting him since 2015. It's sad to see someone fall for their psy-ops.
  - tomrod 2y ago
    What here is disinformation?
    - jpadkins 2y ago
      What here is disinformation? > The guy had secret meetings with Russian spies > when Trump gave away nuclear secrets > there were obvious spies from our adversaries working in top government positions > Russian sources "disappeared" after Trump outed them Almost all of the gp post was already disproven disinformation.
      - tomrod 2y ago
        I've heard folks argue about these claims for a long time, and I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt as I've heard most of these as accurate. So, I wanted to see what some AI assistance could come up with. You may or may not like the results, depending on whether you think AI could never assist on something like, and if you agree it could, whether the results are meaningful to overcome the backfire effect.[0] Results are here [1], and I'll post below: https://chatgpt.com/share/67aa734b-6b0c-8001-8237-f4458c6dee8d https://chatgpt.com/share/67aa734b-6b0c-8001-8237-f4458c6dee... 1. The guy had secret meetings with Russian spies Partially True - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/04/us/politics/trump-russia-carter-page.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/04/us/politics/trump-russia-... - Carter Page, a former Trump campaign adviser, was approached by Russian spies in 2013 who attempted to recruit him. While Page met with Russian officials, it's not confirmed that these were clandestine meetings with spies during his tenure with the Trump campaign. 2. When Trump gave away nuclear secrets True - https://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-allegedly-classified-documents-nuclear-programs/story?id=99968546 https://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-allegedly-classifi... - In a 49-page indictment unsealed in 2023, prosecutors allege that Trump had in his possession documents concerning the "nuclear programs" of the United States. 3. There were obvious spies from our adversaries working in top government positions Misinformation - No credible sources available - There is no verified evidence to support the claim that individuals identified as spies from adversarial nations held top positions within the U.S. government during Trump's administration. 4. Russian sources "disappeared" after Trump outed them True - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/17/russian-sources-disappeared-after-trump-declassified-ex-spys-evidence-uk-court-told https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/17/russian-sour... - After Trump declassified evidence provided by a former British spy regarding his alleged links to Russia, certain Russian sources reportedly vanished. [0] https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe_clean https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe_clean [1] https://chatgpt.com/share/67aa734b-6b0c-8001-8237-f4458c6dee8d https://chatgpt.com/share/67aa734b-6b0c-8001-8237-f4458c6dee...

stainablesteel 2y ago

[flagged]

mmastrac 2y ago
Is there a real source to this? I'll humour you and try to find one. The rabbit hole leads down sketchy sites to sketchy tweets, to someone who eventually sources it as "vBulletin, Biden basement" and links to a Musk tweet with no further info. [0] Smells a lot like "flooding the zone with shit", but I don't think anyone is pro-corruption. Assuming this is true, and it seems like misinfo, I hope that the right has a plan to remove all the corruption they are current in the process of installing -- obviously starting at the top with a leader that launched a memecoin to fleece true believers (also quoted as saying "I love the undereducated"). [0] https://x.com/MarioNawfal/status/1888581827285148067 https://x.com/MarioNawfal/status/1888581827285148067 EDIT: it's even sketchier. Following the source leads to this very likely biased [1] page that estimates her net worth as approx 10M-30M based on... what? It doesn't even match the sums of the document below. She clearly made 1M-5M as an advisor for Chamath's Social Capital, and has some decent savings before that (on the order of a few million) but this estimation of net worth and faux-outrage is laughably transparent. [1] https://www.insidebidensbasement.org/appointees/samantha-power https://www.insidebidensbasement.org/appointees/samantha-pow...
- stainablesteel 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - mmastrac 2y ago
    You don't seem particularly interested in seeking the truth, so I wish you the best.
    - stainablesteel 2y ago
      [flagged]

watwut 2y ago

I am genuinely more concerned by Elon Musk himself having access then one of these with skeletons in the closet. USA adversaries are no more dangerous then USA is to itself.

SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
[flagged]
- bigfudge 2y ago
  Assuming this is true (and it's plausible), getting top secret clearance is _not_ going to be the same as getting unrestricted copies of every large government database. It presumably just means you have permission to read _some_ top secret documents, on a need to know basis?
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    Yes. There's still a process to access classified documents, and they will try to give you as little access as you need for your task when granted. You need to be very specific about what info you need (more broad access makes it easier to deny). I'm not even entirely certain the president can just walk in and grab treasury access that easily (but the president always played by different rules. He may indeed be fast tracked).
- bagels 2y ago
  Do you know how clearance works? It doesn't mean that you suddenly have access to every secret in existence.

adolph 2y ago

> Or, even more horrible, they might have family that adversaries can lean on. Isn't that the case for any government employee?

mmastrac 2y ago
Security clearance will include family members, and it's entirely possible someone will be denied clearance because of something they've done that makes them susceptible to coercion. The candidate would need to disclose things like this. Reddit is full of examples where someone's family impacted their clearance (either denying it or requiring disclosure): https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEngineers/comments/4d4xd8/possibly_denied_security_clearance_because_of/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEngineers/comments/4d4xd8/possib... https://www.reddit.com/r/LawSchool/comments/11pkjew/will_a_family_members_criminal_history_sibling/ https://www.reddit.com/r/LawSchool/comments/11pkjew/will_a_f... etc
- duskwuff 2y ago
  > It's entirely possible someone will be denied clearance because of something they've done that makes them susceptible to coercion. And that doesn't have to be something incriminating, either, just something that means they could be used as a lever against the individual seeking clearance. An example might be something like having a family member who lives in Russia - this would make the subject susceptible to coercion by the Russian government threatening to harm their family.

risyachka 2y ago

Also a lot of consequences of musks actions will appear only decades later and they will claim they have nothing to do with it.

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

To be clear, the security clearances you’re talking about, that look at “skeletons in their closet” or family members or whatever is not applied to MOST federal positions. This is only for a subset that are more sensitive. The type of activity people involved in DOGE are taking on does not require security clearances, just a background check. Also keep in mind, the people involved in DOGE are working alongside senior people, alongside people from agencies, and not just off on their own the way the media has been painting. Treasury secretary Bessent discussed this recently in public.

acdha 2y ago
Privileged IT access usually requires public trust, which will definitely include a PI talking to friends and former colleagues along with a variety of database analysis. It’s not just checking to see if you have DUIs or unpaid child support.

b8 2y ago

Well, I mean China already pwned opm.gov and got SF-86 on all fed employees a few years ago. The FBI gives people who have clearances on how adversaries will attempt to get information and what to do. Mainly it's just alerting the employers security office, and former feds get an email to reach out to for questions/concerns post employment. The security clearance process is broken and mostly BS. The head of DCSA and the FBI NYC office got caught doing illegal stuff which the process is suppose to detect. Also, it's better to go to jail or quit for blackmail then to comply with blackmail, because it caries worst sentences and doesn't have a statue of limitations. Many people with clearances have bad backgrounds and just being honest is all they're looking for in the process. My friend and I even admitted to a bunch of CFAA felonies and was never charged. My friend got a TS/SCI with hacking within the past year of his BI.

Psillisp 2y ago
[flagged]
- b8 2y ago
  I mean OPs post is whataboutism. What if the kid has skeletons in his closet or calling the kids randomers etc. The security clearance process is long and is a joke imo. DCSA often gives interim clearances after running a credit and criminal check with no red flags (including TS/SCI). Then they interview coworkers, boses and family members. They ask basic questions such as does x associate with criminals or illegal stuff, drink or do drugs etc. A lot of bad apples pass. The blog post is FUD imo.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    >What if the kid has skeletons in his closet I mean, we already found a few skeletons >The security clearance process is long and is a joke imo. Don't fully agree, but it is indeed overly long. But as is the theme of this Musk adminsitration; Just because you think something is bad or inefficient doesnt'r give you safeway to skip over it entirely. These last 2 weeks are proving the importannce of clearance more than anything else has over decades. >A lot of bad apples pass. This isn't even an apple at this point. You're letting a skunk rummage through the entire barrel unaccounted for.

ants_everywhere 2y ago

> The reason security clearances are so important...puts the entire American system in pretty serious danger. Remember when Michael Flynn was National Security Advisor? The guy had secret meetings with Russian spies and gave a talk at GRU headquarters. In the first administration there were obvious spies from our adversaries working in top government positions, and the same seems to be true of this administration. Also remember when Trump gave away nuclear secrets? Or when Russian sources "disappeared" after Trump outed them? Or when the CIA reported dozens of spies being killed, arrested, or compromised? These randos getting access to so much data aren't a separate threat. They're part of the same threat presented by the administration as a whole.

jpadkins 2y ago
wait, you actually believe all this dis-info? The CIA doesn't control Trump. They have been passively and actively subverting him since 2015. It's sad to see someone fall for their psy-ops.
- tomrod 2y ago
  What here is disinformation?
  - jpadkins 2y ago
    What here is disinformation? > The guy had secret meetings with Russian spies > when Trump gave away nuclear secrets > there were obvious spies from our adversaries working in top government positions > Russian sources "disappeared" after Trump outed them Almost all of the gp post was already disproven disinformation.
    - tomrod 2y ago
      I've heard folks argue about these claims for a long time, and I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt as I've heard most of these as accurate. So, I wanted to see what some AI assistance could come up with. You may or may not like the results, depending on whether you think AI could never assist on something like, and if you agree it could, whether the results are meaningful to overcome the backfire effect.[0] Results are here [1], and I'll post below: https://chatgpt.com/share/67aa734b-6b0c-8001-8237-f4458c6dee8d https://chatgpt.com/share/67aa734b-6b0c-8001-8237-f4458c6dee... 1. The guy had secret meetings with Russian spies Partially True - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/04/us/politics/trump-russia-carter-page.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/04/us/politics/trump-russia-... - Carter Page, a former Trump campaign adviser, was approached by Russian spies in 2013 who attempted to recruit him. While Page met with Russian officials, it's not confirmed that these were clandestine meetings with spies during his tenure with the Trump campaign. 2. When Trump gave away nuclear secrets True - https://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-allegedly-classified-documents-nuclear-programs/story?id=99968546 https://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-allegedly-classifi... - In a 49-page indictment unsealed in 2023, prosecutors allege that Trump had in his possession documents concerning the "nuclear programs" of the United States. 3. There were obvious spies from our adversaries working in top government positions Misinformation - No credible sources available - There is no verified evidence to support the claim that individuals identified as spies from adversarial nations held top positions within the U.S. government during Trump's administration. 4. Russian sources "disappeared" after Trump outed them True - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/17/russian-sources-disappeared-after-trump-declassified-ex-spys-evidence-uk-court-told https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/17/russian-sour... - After Trump declassified evidence provided by a former British spy regarding his alleged links to Russia, certain Russian sources reportedly vanished. [0] https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe_clean https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe_clean [1] https://chatgpt.com/share/67aa734b-6b0c-8001-8237-f4458c6dee8d https://chatgpt.com/share/67aa734b-6b0c-8001-8237-f4458c6dee...